Lol

You are touching on a broader discussion here which is a bit of a strawman but is an interesting discussion so I will engage.


What you are touching on is the line between Personal and Societal responsibility of an individual within a society.

You seem to naturally fall to the end of the more libertarian (free man) view which is fine but which I would also call nonsensical and childish within organized society.

If you live in the wilds in Alaska and avoid cities great, I support that but once you live within cities communal responsibility (no matter how much you might hate that) must exist. MUST.

Your right to swing your fist as a freeman should be supported but when it hits someone else's nose it should be restricted. I bet you agree with that and if not you are not even on the libertarian spectrum and are only on the 'fool' one.

All rights within a society such as this Covid debate exist on that spectrum.

And so while you and I can debate and agree or disagree on whether Ebola, Covid, the Common Cold, etc, should be able to walk free amongst us as you exhibit your 'rights' and that debate has many subjective elements and is fine, it is DEBATE non-the-less.

You do not hold hallowed ground here such that you are simply right and everyone else wrong.

You may think 600,000 dead in America is not a sufficient high bar and i might think it is and that is ok.

While you fret for the fired nurses, I fret for all the front line workers who have DIED and continue to die due to exposure.

You say 'as a freeman I have every right to get infected if I choose and walk around in any public place I choose and if others don't like that risk they can stay home. Don't impact muh freedums' but you leave the front line workers little choice. Instead you put them in an impossible dilemma where we can calculate a very clear straight line between the average number of exposures to covid patience they get (cases) and how many of them will die as a result.

Will you agree with hospitals being able to turn away any unvax'd covid patients so they do not add to those numbers? I doubt it since most of you, like Tooth, want the gov't to force business to allow them into any business, even ones trying to specifically cater to vulnerable populations with again a 'if you don't like the risk I pose stay home' type view.

Sorry to say it, and i know immature young men specifically hate to hear it but societal life absolutely does involve shared responsibilities.

Even the craziest muh freedums folk here seem to draw a line that anyone touching US ground diagnosed with ebola (as has happened in the past) has to confirm to society imposed limitations. NO one says that about someone touching down on US ground with the common cold.

COvid falls somewhere in between but with 600,000 deaths and counting it is no where near the cold side of the ledger. That you, an individual might think, "i am perfectly fine tiwh 600K deaths and counting. That no where near hits my threshold where society should impose' is fine for you to think. And I mean it.

But get off your high horse in thinking others have to agree. The rest of us in society can disagree and think it is within the threshold to act upon.

And lastly you would be hypocrite (as many here have shown they would be) if you say 'ya but ebola is different' as all you are saying there is that you have the only view that matters with regards to societally imposed thresholds and not that you do not support them. You do support them, but only once it satisfies you.

They pawned it off like the vaccine was going to keep you from getting and spreading the virus. That is the ****ing problem. "DO IT FOR YOUR LOVED ONES. QUIT JUST THINKING ABOUT YOURSELF" they said. Well that has turned out to be just more bullshit lies.

As of now the vaccine is only to prevent YOU from getting really sick. So don't ****ing force it on me. Since when did people become so interested in my well being? I have a 75% chance of dying from heart disease, but nobody has forced me to eat better.

Yay, another debunk this anti-vaxx twitter thread challenge. This time from an account with relatively minimal followers.

Still, if you want to feel better about your friends and family who got the jab then you can go to the following site knowing that they will never show up on it. You may, but they will not.

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/

Did they though?

I mean, there have been a lot of dummies making too many definitive type statements on very thin data but I think you are way over representing things with that comment.

I believe you are referring to the early data suggesting it did limit spread but that is now replaced by much deeper data showing it is no where near as effective in limiting spread as was earlier hoped.

But I will let you quote some examples if you I am wrong and too be honest I would not be shocked if you can find the odd one who dramatically over states that, as too many seem to want to make big points on TV.

I don't understand this thinking. At no point did anyone say the vaccine was 100% effective. At no point did they say future variants could not change the effectiveness. At no point did they say no one would ever need a booster shot.

These are all just assumptions made by people looking to prove the falsehood that the vaccines "don't work". Which is nonsense. They absolutely do work.

Data has shown that vaccinated people cannot catch or spread Delta as easily as the unvaxxed. I believe the difference based on studies I've read is about 5x difference. Not 100% but not negligible either. Perhaps you do not define that level of difference as being worthwhile to protect others, but you'd be wrong of course.

You're done posting in this thread. Don't post again or I'll ban you.

This isn't as bad as it seems. Imagine 100% vaccinated, then 100% of infections would be vaccinated people, right? Obviously with 98% vaccination rates, and the vaccines not being bulletproof, most infections will be vaccinated people. To put some rough math on it, assume of the 8 unvaccinated infections, 7 were students, 1 faculty based on student:faculty ratio. If you normalize it for populations, 349 vaccinated students * 0.02 (vaccinated rate of population) = 6.98 compared to 7 unvaccinated students (and similar math for faculty 15*.08=1.2 vs 1). I'd imagine in a group with 98% vaccination (meaning mandatory vaccinations), the unvaccinated were taking extra precautions compared to the rest of the population, as they likely had medical exemptions. Then obviously there will be quite a bit of variance when dealing with something like covid and small population sizes (8 vs 4 vs 16 is probably close to a coinflip), so I wouldn't draw much conclusion about the effectiveness of the vaccine based on this data point of 6.98 vs 7 or 1.2 vs 1, because the sample size is too small.

The goal post of the anti vaxxer crowd just change from argument to argument.

Infection numbers don't matter, only hospitalization and death numbers among unvaccinated vs vaccinated. This is the only thing that matters at this point.

Like this?

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

And they're not anti vaxxers, they're vaccine truthers, bc they're not against vaccines. Just the covid vaccine bc they know the truth

So basically you're just stubborn. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

No you dont. Get the vaccine but refuse to use the passport. Wear your protest star proudly.

Israel is weird. Heavily vaccinated population and they have the same death rate (vs cases) as wave 1 and 2 (three weeks ago cases are 1/2 of prior peak cases, which means the same death rate given that current deaths are half prior peaks):

kekeeke continues to conflate and not understand two different issues in the same way Tooth does. Tooth's position being the more naïve of the two.

kekeeke and Tooth : Don't make me wear a shirt. I don't want to wear a shirt. It is my right to walk around not wearing a shirt.

Gov't and Society : Fine you have that right.

Society : Sorry sir. You can choose to not wear a shirt but we then can choose to not serve you. You cannot come in this restaurant unless we see you wearing a shirt.

Kekeeke : that is wrong. You trying to force me to put on a shirt is exactly why I won't do it.


Tooth : that is fascist. The gov't needs to get involved and take away private business rights of free association and setting their own terms of service. The gov't needs to force this engagement and force people to socialize with the shirtless.

And the above is not hyperbole. I can quote Tooth above talking about how the gov't needs to get involved because he thinks it wrong that people could end up socially isolated (others might choose to not engage with them) based on their choices. The hippie bum type who chooses to live shirtless and unbathed should get the gov't to step in and force businesses and people to socialize and service them.

Worthless poster Cuepee,
In much of the world vaccine passports are mandated by the government. This is what we're talking about. You have it exactly backwards. We're talking about the world, and you, like an idiot who couldn't get 135 on an LSAT, are talking about Texas/Florida and confusing the two.

Beyond that, it's not fascist for a government to prevent businesses from excluding people. It is fascist for the government to force individuals to get a medical treatment against their will or be excluded from much of society by government mandate.

You're just a completely worthless poster/human being. You could be talking about real stuff but instead you're so stupid/brain damaged you can't even keep up with the discussion.

Who are the worthwhile posters in this thread in your opinion?

Some stats to dig into!

GOP Covid policy is killing GOP voters
Republican attitudes, conspiracy theories and policy failures have created conditions for the Delta variant to thrive.



...But several months into the Delta wave and the data are clear: over the past month, people living in the most staunchly Republican counties have been three times more likely to die of Covid than those living in Democratic strongholds. While the disease doesn’t make political distinctions, Republican attitudes, conspiracy theories and policy failures have created conditions in which the Delta variant can thrive.

In counties where Donald Trump got fewer than 20 percent of 2020 presidential votes, for instance, there have been, on average, fewer than 5 Covid deaths for every 100,000 people since July 31, 2021 — roughly the start of the latest wave of death corresponding with the Delta variant. In places where he got 80 percent or more of the vote, on the other hand, the death rate is closer to 15 per 100,000. Across all counties there’s effectively a dose-response relationship between Republicanism and Covid mortality: as the share of Republican voters increases in your county, your likelihood of dying from the disease rises as well...

And make no mistake as the Freedums these anti vax, anti-measures derps are crying for is the ability to take the same practices (or lack there of) into any area. To FORCE every city and State to let the Derps by default set the measures that can be imposed.

Yes 3 times as many of you will die statistically if we do, but that is OUR right. That is OUR freedum. If YOU don't like stay at home and hide in fear from the death we bring. But then note, that we will push the gov't to force you to engage with us as it is wrong to socially isolate us. So in fact, no hiding away from us, for you. You must let us in all your spaces.

And Tooth's great pivot, caveat begins. lololololol!

Anyone want to take a bet with me that Tooth's prior comments I can quote were specifically about US efforts and specifically about State engagement where we were discussing Ron Disantis trying to force businesses (like cruise lines and small restaurants) to cater to and socialize with anti-vaxxers?

Tooth is desperate now to begin the reframing and changing of his prior statements just as I said he would and you could quote my words.

Tooths prior position where i made that point to him had NOTHING to do with vaccine passports. Not worldwide or locally.

We were discussing whether a local dinner or cruise line should have the abilty to set their terms of service such that they could say 'we choose to not service you if you choose to not get vaccinated'.

Tooths position was that was fascist as it stopped the people getting service with those businesses and it socially isolated those individuals and the gov't needed to step with laws to force service and socialization.

Don't let Tooth fool you with his new lies, pivot's caveats. I will requote his past posts if anyone needs to see it and asks. And just as i said, once i dumbed it down enough for him, he would eventually pivot from that position and try to pretend he never had it.


Tooth, for the record now, do you now agree that if a diner or Cruise line wants to cater to niche customer clientele (ex, the olds) by saying 'we have some of the strongest anti covid measures in place via our rules' because they think they can make money from that niche, that they should be able to do that and cater to that niche?

Or do you still think big gov't needs to stop that and impose Terms of Service to ensure that does not happen?

^Can't fix brain damage induced lack of basic level reading comprehension.

I would say early stage CTE but I'm sure his brain has always been this way.


Who can read his sentences without their eyes hurting.


He makes no effort to type proper sentences.

I really don't think this is true at all. "If they let us freely choose". You had free choice to get the vaccine months before the vaccine passport was mandated yet you didn't get it anyway.


There is a lot of misplaced anger in your ideas about government and vaccines.

Well, if he thinks he is fooling anyone into believing he is not an anti-vaxxer and he is refusing to take it because of tyranny, then not sure what to say. Perhaps he has CTE as well, because seems the best solution for him is to get the vaccine (since he is not anti-vaxx) and then refuse to use the passport to demonstrate his whatever individual liberty belief structure. Win/win doing that - he does not croak and he can be proud of his anti-passport beliefs.

Anyway, I am still curious to see a list of posters who post in a worthwhile manner without CTE or some other speculated issue being a factor. Kind of odd that nobody is willing to share to help others understand the type of content they should be reading in threads like this. That might suggest the overall value of this thread is not particularly strong.

The anti-vaxxers never wanted to get it in the first place. The argument just changes as towards "why" they won't be getting it.

- Its still experimental. -> 5 billion shots are given.
- Only been out 2-3 months -> We have 16 months of clinical trials.
- Doesn't have full FDA approval -> Now we have FDA approval.
- Government put 5G nano technology into it. -> Debunked.
- Can make you sterile. -> Debunked
- Government is forcing passports therefore I won't get the shot out of spite. <- We are here.


I hate the vaccine passport in principle, but that isn't a reason for not getting a shot if you are 30-35+ years old.