Video Proof-Hit BetOnline BBJ but got disconnected when I clicked call. Resolved, Post 356
05-28-2020
, 04:14 AM
lol that list of nl 10 winners is the biggest give away of house bots possible, like they weren't even trying. there is not a single human or maybe even a bot owner who would continue to run the same bot/play at the smallest stakes possible winning almost 20bb/100 over a million hands, gfy. some sites are scummy, but this is a straight up ponzi scam trash fire. I didn't think you could beat any stake for 19bb 3 betting 3 percent, they that bad?
Last edited by gdsfather; 05-28-2020 at 04:24 AM.
05-28-2020
, 04:53 AM
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,866
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lol that list of nl 10 winners is the biggest give away of house bots possible, like they weren't even trying. there is not a single human or maybe even a bot owner who would continue to run the same bot/play at the smallest stakes possible winning almost 20bb/100 over a million hands, gfy. some sites are scummy, but this is a straight up ponzi scam trash fire. I didn't think you could beat any stake for 19bb 3 betting 3 percent, they that bad?
05-28-2020
, 05:27 AM
they have the player pool on point
the fact they also say the limits on withdrawals can change is so ****ing sketchy, there is never any reason it should change because player deposits are supposed to be separate, and sending crypto is easy.
i feel like anyone thats making that 100k deposit is probably using it on the sportsbook and will be banned if they win a single bet
the fact they also say the limits on withdrawals can change is so ****ing sketchy, there is never any reason it should change because player deposits are supposed to be separate, and sending crypto is easy.
i feel like anyone thats making that 100k deposit is probably using it on the sportsbook and will be banned if they win a single bet
05-28-2020
, 05:38 AM
Obv scary/fishy/skechy overall.
These BBJ attract so many players but it so easy to mess around with those as the siteowner.
Similar stuff happend at Ultimative Bet iirc. There was a player who won the BBJ twice within a few weeks.
I hope Joey is in the investigation lab also about those Cashgame bots
These BBJ attract so many players but it so easy to mess around with those as the siteowner.
Similar stuff happend at Ultimative Bet iirc. There was a player who won the BBJ twice within a few weeks.
I hope Joey is in the investigation lab also about those Cashgame bots
05-28-2020
, 06:22 AM
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,555
05-28-2020
, 06:30 AM
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,866
BetOnline, Sportsbetting, Tiger Gaming. That's all Chico network runs.
05-28-2020
, 07:08 AM
grinder
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 674
I had around 1k on bol left for weekends when the games were good. Just withdrew. It's insane how this is an obvious frauding attempt.
The posted bots, the bbj jackpot beeing won twice back2back (although obv possible but very unlikely), and the myrical DC when he hits the turn for the bbj.
They are running some kind of ponzi scheme 100%. They can't payout the bbj caus the money is used for other players withdrawal or stuff like that.
This raises huge huge red flags. Stop playing there, spread the word, make it public.
Curious if my cash out even goes through
The posted bots, the bbj jackpot beeing won twice back2back (although obv possible but very unlikely), and the myrical DC when he hits the turn for the bbj.
They are running some kind of ponzi scheme 100%. They can't payout the bbj caus the money is used for other players withdrawal or stuff like that.
This raises huge huge red flags. Stop playing there, spread the word, make it public.
Curious if my cash out even goes through
05-28-2020
, 07:25 AM
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Did anything interesting come out of the other thread? I only read it briefly but I saw some comments from someone who looked back at the BBJ jackpot winners over the last while and all of them (7-8 people) had the same avatar which seemed a red flag but maybe some banal reason was missing for it?
Good luck. It sucks and I think the thread does deserve the visibility that only this particular forum gives on 2+2 these days.
Good luck. It sucks and I think the thread does deserve the visibility that only this particular forum gives on 2+2 these days.
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Good luck with this. I remember that one video regarding the BetOnline live blackjack session where the guy caught the dealer cheating and the backlash in negative media that BOL experienced forced them to respond.
I also had random disconnects when I used to play on BOL and it's one of the reasons I quit offshore poker sites. I knew specifically it was their servers because I would navigate to sites like speedtest.com and all other websites would work properly.
Nothing really to add but I think everyone is on your side here.
I don't think you'll get a response from BOL unless they are forced to respond.... otherwise it seems like they would be content with not responding and hoping this fades away.
Have you considered filing a complaint with whatever gaming commission licenses thier software? I think you'll likely hit a dead end there unless you engage someone like ChicagoJoey.
I say this --- because it was pretty obvious that ACR had a bot problem for several years and I even reported it and it went ignored.
It wasn't until someone with a social media following like ChicagoJoey made a stink about it on the socials until it got attention and people got refunds.
It's sad that this is the way it is... but I don't really know what other options you have. Guys like him seem to be the only advocates we have left.
I also had random disconnects when I used to play on BOL and it's one of the reasons I quit offshore poker sites. I knew specifically it was their servers because I would navigate to sites like speedtest.com and all other websites would work properly.
Nothing really to add but I think everyone is on your side here.
I don't think you'll get a response from BOL unless they are forced to respond.... otherwise it seems like they would be content with not responding and hoping this fades away.
Have you considered filing a complaint with whatever gaming commission licenses thier software? I think you'll likely hit a dead end there unless you engage someone like ChicagoJoey.
I say this --- because it was pretty obvious that ACR had a bot problem for several years and I even reported it and it went ignored.
It wasn't until someone with a social media following like ChicagoJoey made a stink about it on the socials until it got attention and people got refunds.
It's sad that this is the way it is... but I don't really know what other options you have. Guys like him seem to be the only advocates we have left.
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I don't really care what anyone else thinks... but personally, with all the scandals that online poker players have had to endure over the past 15-20 years, I think it's foolish to NOT be skeptical about these sorts of things.
BOL/Chico should pay the man his money, acknowledge the server connection problems that have plagued their site for YEARS and either do away the with BBJ or revise the rules concerning the BBJ so that something like this never happens again.
I'm personally against BBJs but that's my opinion and that's not what this thread is about. That's an entirely different discussion that's been had on this forum several times.
BOL/Chico should pay the man his money, acknowledge the server connection problems that have plagued their site for YEARS and either do away the with BBJ or revise the rules concerning the BBJ so that something like this never happens again.
I'm personally against BBJs but that's my opinion and that's not what this thread is about. That's an entirely different discussion that's been had on this forum several times.
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I just want to go back on the record and say the frequent disconnects from the BOL client are why I stopped playing on this software & this is why I sympathize with OP so much.
There were times where one table would disconnect and another table would continue with action, proving there was no issue with my internet connection at all.
That's why I am calling BS on BOL in regards to this. I would be willing to bet money that there is no issue with OP's internet connection and that the problem exists entirely on BOL/Chico poker's servers.
This same network disconnect OP showed in his video has happened to me costing me hundreds/potentially thousands of dollars and support simply blamed it on my ISP.
FWIW, I do not play poker on WiFi, I was connected directly via Ethernet, I have a fiber internet connection and I have taken all of the Cisco courses so I am well versed in troubleshooting networking issues and used my network troubleshooting skills to determine that internet traffic was traversing through my gateway properly.
BOL is the only app I've ever had consistent networking issues with.
But still, the way BOL's TOS is written, I am stuck with the losses regardless.
I really hope that this thread goes to the top of search engines when people think about playing poker on BOL.
There were times where one table would disconnect and another table would continue with action, proving there was no issue with my internet connection at all.
That's why I am calling BS on BOL in regards to this. I would be willing to bet money that there is no issue with OP's internet connection and that the problem exists entirely on BOL/Chico poker's servers.
This same network disconnect OP showed in his video has happened to me costing me hundreds/potentially thousands of dollars and support simply blamed it on my ISP.
FWIW, I do not play poker on WiFi, I was connected directly via Ethernet, I have a fiber internet connection and I have taken all of the Cisco courses so I am well versed in troubleshooting networking issues and used my network troubleshooting skills to determine that internet traffic was traversing through my gateway properly.
BOL is the only app I've ever had consistent networking issues with.
But still, the way BOL's TOS is written, I am stuck with the losses regardless.
I really hope that this thread goes to the top of search engines when people think about playing poker on BOL.
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This really really sucks, but I think there's a 0% chance you get the resolution you want. What are they supposed to do? No one else got kicked out of the hand except you, so it's hard to believe it was an issue on their end, and you'd have to definitely prove that to have a chance. And the replay of the hand is nothing more than that. You could've misread the hand and misclick folded or just timed out cause you weren't paying attention (Obviously, I don't believe this is what happened in your case). Best of luck to you m8.
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I had a situation on ignition where I made the nuts on the river and was unable to call the river all in as my internet cut out right when I went to click call...
I immediately called support and got two separate $1600 refunds for the $3200 pot lost. They wouldn’t pay me the $800 on the river but gave me a full refund for not only the money I contributed to the pot but for the size of the pot.
It took me two separate phone calls and a lot of badgering but they finally conceded even though it was 99% my crappy internet cutting out.
—
OP you got to be relentless; just don’t lose your cool and GL
I immediately called support and got two separate $1600 refunds for the $3200 pot lost. They wouldn’t pay me the $800 on the river but gave me a full refund for not only the money I contributed to the pot but for the size of the pot.
It took me two separate phone calls and a lot of badgering but they finally conceded even though it was 99% my crappy internet cutting out.
—
OP you got to be relentless; just don’t lose your cool and GL
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This is an error on your part. On disconnects, It should use the remaining time a player has and timebank before it folds.
"The player is granted a certain amount of time to make an action in the hand."
- You did not provide that to him.
Your moron programmers thought it would be a good idea to autofold and sitout on "disconnects".
When disconnected a player should be alotted his remaining time and timebank to make a decision.
As should be the case on every single decision in the game. No matter what. The player should get the time he's rightfully warranted.
If the time was provided to him, he would have reconnected, he would have made the call and gotten the money.
Case closed.
Sidenote :
If the software devs in backend can check the exact conditions of the hand. They would be able to see exact timings.
Did the player "press the fold button"? If not, did the software automatically "fold" the hand before the time was used up, these automatic folds should not be a thing.
"The player is granted a certain amount of time to make an action in the hand."
- You did not provide that to him.
Your moron programmers thought it would be a good idea to autofold and sitout on "disconnects".
When disconnected a player should be alotted his remaining time and timebank to make a decision.
As should be the case on every single decision in the game. No matter what. The player should get the time he's rightfully warranted.
If the time was provided to him, he would have reconnected, he would have made the call and gotten the money.
Case closed.
Sidenote :
If the software devs in backend can check the exact conditions of the hand. They would be able to see exact timings.
Did the player "press the fold button"? If not, did the software automatically "fold" the hand before the time was used up, these automatic folds should not be a thing.
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The people claiming they deliberately scammed the OP are reaching a bit though. How would that work exactly? Surely if they wanted to allocate those funds to a house account and are capable of freezing someone at a table about to win the jackpot they would also be capable of doing something else to continue and/or win the jackpot in a much more efficient and undetectable way.
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What incentive would BOL have to not pay out? Someone will hit it eventually. Why would they go through the trouble of intentionally disconnecting someone? Do you guys listen to yourselves? Honestly. Let me guess, They disconnected him because they are waiting for one of their house bots to be in a hand when the BBJ hits, right?
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The sheer odds of someone winning a lottery is crazy, but it happens.
I am highly critical of BOL, as you can see in the BetOnline threads (Should not be sponsored). VIP point theft. Slow with bot removal. Poor communication. Random fee changes. Sudden withdrawal limits.
Conspiracy theories inherently have logical flaws because they lack information to prove what they are claiming (Not necessarily their fault, information can be difficult to obtain). A reasonable conspiracy would at least have incentives/motives and logic lined up if you filled in that missing info.
The idea that they one off decided to target this guy and deny him a BBJ is utter nonsense. It doesn't follow logic. It doesn't follow incentives. It's not even close to the easiest way for them to scam the BBJ. Why even give him the hand in the first place if they were controlling it? It's a ridiculous thought.
I am highly critical of BOL, as you can see in the BetOnline threads (Should not be sponsored). VIP point theft. Slow with bot removal. Poor communication. Random fee changes. Sudden withdrawal limits.
Conspiracy theories inherently have logical flaws because they lack information to prove what they are claiming (Not necessarily their fault, information can be difficult to obtain). A reasonable conspiracy would at least have incentives/motives and logic lined up if you filled in that missing info.
The idea that they one off decided to target this guy and deny him a BBJ is utter nonsense. It doesn't follow logic. It doesn't follow incentives. It's not even close to the easiest way for them to scam the BBJ. Why even give him the hand in the first place if they were controlling it? It's a ridiculous thought.
Every other issue you mentioned is legit criticism of the network.
What would be their reasoning for freezing a hand now, after all of the legit players who have won it in the past at higher jackpot totals?
Interesting dilemma though. Let's say a player accidentally or disconnect folds prior to their opponent making their bad beat jackpot hand on a later street. If they make it on the Flop then it's possible that they would have incorrectly raised their opponent out of the hand prior to them making their bad beat qualifying hand. In that case, I'd say no, but yes if both hands were made prior to the unintentional fold.
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LOOOOOOOOOOOL
ouch
Maybe take away part of the boiler plate for a skewering like this Mike.
I wonder who the person was who determined the connection issues and how they even did it, especially when it obviously didn't even go through normal disconnect protocols. I realize you are just an intermediary here Mike, but do you know the people this information gets handed off to in anyway?
If it really was a connection error, it obviously was on their terrible software/servers end, is there determination that since the user was the one who experienced the software shitting itself the onus is on them because they were the unfortunate one? So any disconnection=users fault 100percent of the time.
It probably happens a lot there I'm assuming as well because it is barely operable garbage. Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt somehow they aren't total scumbags(lol), the incompetence is insulting just as much.
ouch
Maybe take away part of the boiler plate for a skewering like this Mike.
I wonder who the person was who determined the connection issues and how they even did it, especially when it obviously didn't even go through normal disconnect protocols. I realize you are just an intermediary here Mike, but do you know the people this information gets handed off to in anyway?
If it really was a connection error, it obviously was on their terrible software/servers end, is there determination that since the user was the one who experienced the software shitting itself the onus is on them because they were the unfortunate one? So any disconnection=users fault 100percent of the time.
It probably happens a lot there I'm assuming as well because it is barely operable garbage. Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt somehow they aren't total scumbags(lol), the incompetence is insulting just as much.
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Those two things are really bad and I'll never play there, but I would still need more proof that betonline purposefully doomswitched his connection when he hit, like some are saying.
To the others saying since he never would have folded he should receive it anyways that doesn't work because there was another person still in the hand. If it was heads up on the river and he timed out and folded I'd think differently.
Also, it seems like you're missing out on the obvious by not just referring to them as botonline if the problem is that bad.
To the others saying since he never would have folded he should receive it anyways that doesn't work because there was another person still in the hand. If it was heads up on the river and he timed out and folded I'd think differently.
Also, it seems like you're missing out on the obvious by not just referring to them as botonline if the problem is that bad.
Myself and other 2+2ers commonly used the name "Botonline" in this forum for years and I'll expect royalties for continued use of the name.
It is stolen routinely, but not in the same way that's being described in this thread. Bot accounts have occasionally won the jackpot and regularly win large shares of it. None of that money has ever been reintroduced into the jackpot and we have no idea if it even gets confiscated prior to the bot operators withdrawing the funds.
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No it wasn't misfortunate pal, it was totally done on purpose to save your sorry as site from paying out hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your site is a cesspool of crap and **** and you expect us to believe that as Devo was 10-15 seconds away from getting this jackpot it disconnected OUT OF THE BLUE? Wow what a fvking coincidence that is!! Never had a connection issue and when he is poised to win 6 figures the connection magically disconnects!!
I wish there was a way to close down your whole operation. That to me and many others would be justice. *******s.
I wish there was a way to close down your whole operation. That to me and many others would be justice. *******s.
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I could be wrong but I think he does have the disconnection on video.
Bottom line is this is about as blatant a forced disconnect as there could be. Right when he gets dealt the card to earn the huge jackpot? That is not a coincidence, please do something about this Joey. I have no interest in this but I am fuming about the situation. It is so wrong it makes me sick. And Support Mike blows it off and acts like the whole thread is filled with conspiracy theorists. So evil.
Bottom line is this is about as blatant a forced disconnect as there could be. Right when he gets dealt the card to earn the huge jackpot? That is not a coincidence, please do something about this Joey. I have no interest in this but I am fuming about the situation. It is so wrong it makes me sick. And Support Mike blows it off and acts like the whole thread is filled with conspiracy theorists. So evil.
Yes. Not only have I been at the table twice as it occurred with legitimate players winning it, there are also 2+2ers who have actually won it.
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This is a terrible look and a PR disaster for BOL. I don't know who is in charge of marketing, but they should be shitcanned, asap.
At the very least, something should have been done in consideration for this. Save yourselves paying out money that doesn't belong to you and now you've created hundreds of thousands of dollars worth if concerned players.
This is a great follow up to the deletion of player rewards. Terrible decision, management will enjoy all the backlash.
At the very least, something should have been done in consideration for this. Save yourselves paying out money that doesn't belong to you and now you've created hundreds of thousands of dollars worth if concerned players.
This is a great follow up to the deletion of player rewards. Terrible decision, management will enjoy all the backlash.
It's mindboggling how stupid, stubborn and short-sighted they've been about this thus far, as well as several other previous decisions they've made.
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Last year, I made a deposit on BetOnline with a debit card and noticed they had charged the card the usual card fee, plus an extra two dollars and change for no reason. I emailed them for a refund and instead of refunding the money to my card, they put the two dollars and change into my sportsbook account.
I had played on BOL for several years prior to this and never had any issues, so I tested the waters with another deposit to see if this was a scam. Sure enough, on my next deposit they overcharged my card again, this time for five cents, like they were seeing how much they could get away with overcharging without me noticing.
Not sure if they are broke or greedy, or both, but that was the last time I played on their site.
I had played on BOL for several years prior to this and never had any issues, so I tested the waters with another deposit to see if this was a scam. Sure enough, on my next deposit they overcharged my card again, this time for five cents, like they were seeing how much they could get away with overcharging without me noticing.
Not sure if they are broke or greedy, or both, but that was the last time I played on their site.
The most interesting thing to me is the handful of known botting accounts listed there. By no means are all, or even a majority, of the account names listed there suspicious accounts, not even the back-to-back winner.
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Joey, you might also take note that BetOnline had a VIP points system where players could buy into $55 and $109 multis with points. Some players had accrued points equity in the thousands and tens of thousands (I had ~$3k worth of points myself)
Then BetOnline one day decided to take away all uses for VIP points, without any prior warning to players. They effectively stole hundreds of thousands in points equity.
The list of transgressions is quite long with this site.
Then BetOnline one day decided to take away all uses for VIP points, without any prior warning to players. They effectively stole hundreds of thousands in points equity.
The list of transgressions is quite long with this site.
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THIS is what a real scam looks like, quite unlike the "ghosting" thread that is also prominent on here. Unfortunately in a totally unregulated arena, which online gambling and poker is for the most part, you have no recourse. There is no authority to go to and no one that is looking out for you. In other words you are on your own. "Let the buyer beware" is the only thing that comes to mind.
Yes, the OP can blast BOL all over the internet and people here can do the same, plus withdraw their money and their action from this site, as well they should. I suspect this may be the beginning of the end for BOL and if I had money on there I would get it out as fast as I could.
Yes, the OP can blast BOL all over the internet and people here can do the same, plus withdraw their money and their action from this site, as well they should. I suspect this may be the beginning of the end for BOL and if I had money on there I would get it out as fast as I could.
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@cneuy3 I mean they seem to be very unprofessional in conducting their scams (e.g. the BJ hand above or the fact that they only freeze one table of a respective player instead of all his active tables). Also, do you reckon someone who is so low ignores the opportunity to bank 100k in a single hand?
If they have to maneuver their way to a tourney win through individually freezing tables, then they obviously have no means to influence their RNG directly.
Imagine you’re new to poker and the first things you see are either players trying to scam each other or sites blatantly doing it instead. And if you still opt to give it a try by choosing the most popular platform and run into an issue, you wait 6+ weeks for a reply from it’s support. It’s really a bismal outlook for online poker.
EDIT: @IBETUFOLD34 WTF?!
If they have to maneuver their way to a tourney win through individually freezing tables, then they obviously have no means to influence their RNG directly.
Imagine you’re new to poker and the first things you see are either players trying to scam each other or sites blatantly doing it instead. And if you still opt to give it a try by choosing the most popular platform and run into an issue, you wait 6+ weeks for a reply from it’s support. It’s really a bismal outlook for online poker.
EDIT: @IBETUFOLD34 WTF?!
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I don't know if Tiger Gaming and BOL are related (I remember reading something that they were, but can't find it, perhaps someone with more knowledge can chime in), but they are/were? both skins on the Chico network. If you search Chico in the "Internet Poker" forum, several instances of "Tiger" confiscating player balances charging them with bogus cheating allegations. A bunch of them got Sports Book Review involved, and got their money back, but they have a history of trying shady stuff.
Not sure why anyone would play there anymore, at this point
Not sure why anyone would play there anymore, at this point
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does anyone know if betonline.ag has any connection to the now defunct site betcoin.ag?
scanning this article from 2017, things sound awfully familiar...
https://professionalrakeback.com/bet...oom-shuts-down
scanning this article from 2017, things sound awfully familiar...
https://professionalrakeback.com/bet...oom-shuts-down
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Out of curiosity I sharkscoped all the players on that list and none of their sharkscopes appeared to be a superuser type player and majority of them were small losers over the course of 50 to 200 games. Santinoz the guy who won it twice in a row had the highest average buyin of any player I scoped at $101, played 253 tourneys in total, and profited $841 in total with a steady downhill graph after an earlier spike. Nothing suspicious came out of the sharkscope graphs at all. The Santinoz player also seemed to be a regular as that name or a similar name also had an account on numerous other major sites. Obviously the sharkscope results don't mean much and something shady still could have possibly happened but atleast non of the accounts showed some sort of insane tourney bink or graph.(BetOnline doesn't really have huge tourney prizepools though)
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Agree a bit but obviously they were and are probably facing larger than usual withdrawal requests considering the loss of sports and people needing money now in real life due to complications from covid19. It seems limiting withdrawals to one per week per customer but having a higher max withdrawal would make more sense in that situation though. I'm not sure I can come up with a good explanation for maxing the withdrawal to $3K other than maybe they are trying to keep from losing customers during this time and hoping the former sports wagering type will ride it out until sports return and/or wager in other forms of gambling offered on their site.
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I played on BOL for like 6-8 months and their software was nice as hell but they had a laundry list of problems. Not killing the bots, lying to us about a VIP points system (intense meetings, lol) and then turning around and saying our rake (some of the highest in the industry btw) was funding MTT guarantees the bulk of cash grinders don't even play.
I doubt that they actively saw this guy was about to hit the BBJ and then screwed him in the middle of the hand. However, I do think they got insanely lucky with some kind of software malfunction and decided to capitalize on the opportunity by denying the jackpot when they could.
The insolvency theory is plausible for sure.
I doubt that they actively saw this guy was about to hit the BBJ and then screwed him in the middle of the hand. However, I do think they got insanely lucky with some kind of software malfunction and decided to capitalize on the opportunity by denying the jackpot when they could.
The insolvency theory is plausible for sure.
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I had around 1k on bol left for weekends when the games were good. Just withdrew. It's insane how this is an obvious frauding attempt.
The posted bots, the bbj jackpot beeing won twice back2back (although obv possible but very unlikely), and the myrical DC when he hits the turn for the bbj.
They are running some kind of ponzi scheme 100%. They can't payout the bbj caus the money is used for other players withdrawal or stuff like that.
This raises huge huge red flags. Stop playing there, spread the word, make it public.
Curious if my cash out even goes through
The posted bots, the bbj jackpot beeing won twice back2back (although obv possible but very unlikely), and the myrical DC when he hits the turn for the bbj.
They are running some kind of ponzi scheme 100%. They can't payout the bbj caus the money is used for other players withdrawal or stuff like that.
This raises huge huge red flags. Stop playing there, spread the word, make it public.
Curious if my cash out even goes through
Not only will I guarantee that your cashout will go through(Given you haven't broken any rules). I'd wager on the speed being quicker than at any of the other US friendly sites.
Last edited by MCAChiTown; 05-28-2020 at 07:43 AM.
05-28-2020
, 07:55 AM
somewhat related, there's been a few times on acr when i've had glitches make it unable to play or it starts updating and shuts down software mid sng etc and i've always been refunded whenever i contact customer service about it
we're talking orders of magnitude different situation here but as far as unregulated US friendly sites go I've been pretty happy with them as they've been good with me about it when issues like this occur
looking at this, regardless of whether or not the disconnect was on server side, client side, or an evil scheme - there's absolutely zero chance he'd have folded there and they should have credited it
that's what i really don't understand, even if the issue happened to be on the client side, does it really matter at all?
they had a chance here to go along with the spirit of the jackpot at literally no cost to them but instead chose not to
notice they don't dispute his hole card history or anything like that, they agree had he not folded he would have gotten it - fraud is the only reason to deny it and everyone agrees he had JTs
we're talking orders of magnitude different situation here but as far as unregulated US friendly sites go I've been pretty happy with them as they've been good with me about it when issues like this occur
looking at this, regardless of whether or not the disconnect was on server side, client side, or an evil scheme - there's absolutely zero chance he'd have folded there and they should have credited it
that's what i really don't understand, even if the issue happened to be on the client side, does it really matter at all?
they had a chance here to go along with the spirit of the jackpot at literally no cost to them but instead chose not to
notice they don't dispute his hole card history or anything like that, they agree had he not folded he would have gotten it - fraud is the only reason to deny it and everyone agrees he had JTs
05-28-2020
, 08:27 AM
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,765
05-28-2020
, 08:29 AM
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,765
05-28-2020
, 08:31 AM
I also didn't discredit everybody. I set the facts straight for the misinformed, like yourself.
05-28-2020
, 08:36 AM
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,765
Quote:
05-28-2020
, 08:45 AM
I play there on a regular basis. Do you?
You clearly have reading comprehension difficulties if the only responses from my post that you could interpret were the ones that seemed like I was defending them, when in actuality I was just stating facts based on my experiences regularly playing there for years now. You must have missed the dozen or so responses in that post where I either brought up or agreed with legit criticisms of the network.
I also stated that I think the OP should be paid. Your main issue seems to be that I disagreed with your posts that were full of unsubstantiated bullshit.
I don't have all day to sit here and argue with you for the sake of arguing since we both agree that the OP should be paid in the end.
Aren't you a grown ass man with a wife? How about trying to approach adult conversations with a little more maturity.
You clearly have reading comprehension difficulties if the only responses from my post that you could interpret were the ones that seemed like I was defending them, when in actuality I was just stating facts based on my experiences regularly playing there for years now. You must have missed the dozen or so responses in that post where I either brought up or agreed with legit criticisms of the network.
I also stated that I think the OP should be paid. Your main issue seems to be that I disagreed with your posts that were full of unsubstantiated bullshit.
I don't have all day to sit here and argue with you for the sake of arguing since we both agree that the OP should be paid in the end.
Aren't you a grown ass man with a wife? How about trying to approach adult conversations with a little more maturity.
05-28-2020
, 09:09 AM
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,765
Quote:
I play there on a regular basis. Do you?
You clearly have reading comprehension difficulties if the only responses from my post that you could interpret were the ones that seemed like I was defending them, when in actuality I was just stating facts based on my experiences regularly playing there for years now. You must have missed the dozen or so responses in that post where I either brought up or agreed with legit criticisms of the network.
I also stated that I think the OP should be paid. Your main issue seems to be that I disagreed with your posts that were full of unsubstantiated bullshit.
I don't have all day to sit here and argue with you for the sake of arguing since we both agree that the OP should be paid in the end.
Aren't you a grown ass man with a wife? How about trying to approach adult conversations with a little more maturity.
You clearly have reading comprehension difficulties if the only responses from my post that you could interpret were the ones that seemed like I was defending them, when in actuality I was just stating facts based on my experiences regularly playing there for years now. You must have missed the dozen or so responses in that post where I either brought up or agreed with legit criticisms of the network.
I also stated that I think the OP should be paid. Your main issue seems to be that I disagreed with your posts that were full of unsubstantiated bullshit.
I don't have all day to sit here and argue with you for the sake of arguing since we both agree that the OP should be paid in the end.
Aren't you a grown ass man with a wife? How about trying to approach adult conversations with a little more maturity.
No pal it's your defense of the site in this case that is misinformed. Anyways I'm done going back and forth with you. And for the record I didn't give a **** if you criticized my posts. It was your defending the indefensible which set me off.
05-28-2020
, 10:09 AM
centurion
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 112
Quote:
I'm not playing both sides. I am simplify stating facts based on firsthand experience, unlike yourself.
"OP claimed that never happened to him before,"
It was literally his first day on the site.
Please follow along closely if you're going to comment on this situation.
"OP claimed that never happened to him before,"
It was literally his first day on the site.
Please follow along closely if you're going to comment on this situation.
So the disconnect was clearly NOT on his end (which is what betonline is somehow stating), which leaves us with what....
05-28-2020
, 10:19 AM
Quote:
The avatar thing is simply done for those videos. They are not the real avatars of those players. I imagine they don't want to promote some of the players' real avatars in their videos. The account names are real though.
I'm sorry to hear about the issues you face playing on the network time and time again throughout this thread. From my personal experience over the last few years, they have the most consistently stable software of any of the sites with decent traffic that offer games to US based players. I rarely ever have connection issues there. I've probably had less connection issues there than I've ever had at any site that I've ever put a lot of volume on, and that includes the big sites that I played on pre-Black Friday.
No other players were disconnected and no disconnection notice was shown in the chat box. A momentary freeze followed by a fold is not something I ever recall encountering while playing there.
Consider yourself lucky. Plenty of cash game players have requested refunds for similar situations on Bodog/Bovada/Ignition and are most often told no because the issue was caused from the player's end, even when it isn't.
You have a misunderstanding of how it works because what you're claiming should happen is exactly what happens there. It doesn't auto-fold you upon disconnections. There is an extended time-bank given when you disconnect. When you are brought back you are allotted the same amount of time to act as you had prior to disconnecting. As you can see from the evidence the OP provided in the 2nd video, the software never recognized him disconnecting. He never disconnected. The software froze on him.
Nope. The replay is sped up a bit.
There is an indication of time-bank usage. The client didn't recognize a disconnect from his end. It would show in the chat box if it had. I doubt there's any way to identify a momentary freeze from the replayer.
I do, or we would have heard of this happening previously since their Bad Beat Jackpot has been in operation daily for a few years now.
Exactly. It doesn't make logical sense.
Every other issue you mentioned is legit criticism of the network.
They do. There are several legit players, even 2+2ers, who won it and even more who have won large shares of it.
Even I was suspicious at first, until I realized it was a recreational player. He might have been one of the luckiest players of all-time, but the high stakes regs were also very lucky in the following weeks.
Hypothetically, let's say they didn't. Their current withdrawal limit per week is 3k.
What would be their reasoning for freezing a hand now, after all of the legit players who have won it in the past at higher jackpot totals?
I agree with this since no player would ever legitimately fold a made bad beat jackpot hand intentionally.
Interesting dilemma though. Let's say a player accidentally or disconnect folds prior to their opponent making their bad beat jackpot hand on a later street. If they make it on the Flop then it's possible that they would have incorrectly raised their opponent out of the hand prior to them making their bad beat qualifying hand. In that case, I'd say no, but yes if both hands were made prior to the unintentional fold.
That's completely made up bullshit. There's a 2+2er who just won it for $80k about a month ago.
There are bot accounts that have won it, but you won't find legitimate proof of these bots being operated by the site. Any rumors are simply that at this point.
I rarely ever have disconnect problems playing there and I can't recall ever having the momentary freeze followed by a fold without a disconnect notice that the OP describes.
I assume you don't play on any of the US friendly sites, because the software stability is a substantial step up from the rest.
He would have never folded intentionally regardless of another person being in the hand or not.
Myself and other 2+2ers commonly used the name "Botonline" in this forum for years and I'll expect royalties for continued use of the name.
Why UNLESS? I feel like it would be a bad decision either way.
It is stolen routinely, but not in the same way that's being described in this thread. Bot accounts have occasionally won the jackpot and regularly win large shares of it. None of that money has ever been reintroduced into the jackpot and we have no idea if it even gets confiscated prior to the bot operators withdrawing the funds.
Show proof of your claims. Oh right, you have none. On the other hand, we do have proof of legitimate players winning it and several more winning large shares of it.
Yes. Not only have I been at the table twice as it occurred with legitimate players winning it, there are also 2+2ers who have actually won it.
Any proof that the recreational player named santinhoz works for them and was subsequently allowed to go lose large sums of that money to high stakes regs?
I can usually count on you to make good points. In a thread full of misinformation you didn't disappoint.
It's mindboggling how stupid, stubborn and short-sighted they've been about this thus far, as well as several other previous decisions they've made.
I agree, that they should do that, at least once.
This is, and has been, a big issue for years when depositing via cards at any of these unregulated sites. It's actually not the sites scamming you. These sites use 3rd party processors for transactions. They are the ones skimming. That is one of the biggest reasons why most people recommend you use crypto for transactions with these sites and why the sites recommend you use crypto as well.
Withdrawal limits were reduced when the sports world went on hiatus. They are a sportsbook first and foremost. It is a bit worrisome that they have not been raised since then though. I'm also not sure how much they do to make players aware of this prior to depositing.
The most interesting thing to me is the handful of known botting accounts listed there. By no means are all, or even a majority, of the account names listed there suspicious accounts, not even the back-to-back winner.
Not true. The recent payouts were less because the bad beat jackpot hand requirements were lowered for that period of time. At the moment, the requirement is the highest it has ever been. You need to lose the hand with quad queens or better to qualify. Both players need to use both hole cards to qualify.
That is definitely a legitimate criticism of the network.
This is unlikely to be an intentional scam based on the history of this bad beat jackpot promotion. Why would they only start doing this now after all of these years?
That is very true.
You bring up a good topic. At one point in the past they actually raised their share for fees taken mid-promotion when the jackpot neared a million dollars. I was pretty vocal with my criticism about that. They've since lowered their share for fees taken.
100%. It's their way of increasing the rake without actually having to show it in their rake charts.
I 100% agree that the conduct of these sites gives online poker a bad look to new and potential players.
It's the same exact bot ring and they've been there for as long as they've been on ACR/WPN.
Don't you regularly play at ACR/WPN and Ignition/Bovada? I can assure you that neither of those options is much better, if at all, and each have had plenty of shadiness take place at their tables over the years.
It grows quickly these days and doesn't get hit as often with the newly implementing requirements for triggering it.
OFC he doesn't.
That Betcoin site was or is part of the Winning Poker Network with ACR, Black Chip and True Poker. It was never part of the Chico Network.
There was some talk about it at the time. Joey probably forgets now, but he mentioned it briefly back then. Even I was initially suspicious until I regularly saw the player at the tables in the following weeks.
It definitely is a bit concerning given the ability to deposit more than that and win more than that at the tables. I assume it will be raised when sports resume, but who knows. The Chico Network makes perplexing and dumb decisions on a regular basis.
We're talking about cash game bots and cash game players. Cash game bots almost never play other formats and not every cash game reg plays a lot of MTTs either.
I think that you nailed it.
Totally agree with everything in the first 2 paragraphs. Not sure about insolvency, but the extended withdrawal cap is a bit concerning and lends credence to the theory.
They've obviously had no issues paying out the jackpot to legitimate players in the past. Even if they had to credit it to an account their weekly withdrawal limit would save them from having to pay it all out at once.
Not only will I guarantee that your cashout will go through(Given you haven't broken any rules). I'd wager on the speed being quicker than at any of the other US friendly sites.
I'm sorry to hear about the issues you face playing on the network time and time again throughout this thread. From my personal experience over the last few years, they have the most consistently stable software of any of the sites with decent traffic that offer games to US based players. I rarely ever have connection issues there. I've probably had less connection issues there than I've ever had at any site that I've ever put a lot of volume on, and that includes the big sites that I played on pre-Black Friday.
No other players were disconnected and no disconnection notice was shown in the chat box. A momentary freeze followed by a fold is not something I ever recall encountering while playing there.
Consider yourself lucky. Plenty of cash game players have requested refunds for similar situations on Bodog/Bovada/Ignition and are most often told no because the issue was caused from the player's end, even when it isn't.
You have a misunderstanding of how it works because what you're claiming should happen is exactly what happens there. It doesn't auto-fold you upon disconnections. There is an extended time-bank given when you disconnect. When you are brought back you are allotted the same amount of time to act as you had prior to disconnecting. As you can see from the evidence the OP provided in the 2nd video, the software never recognized him disconnecting. He never disconnected. The software froze on him.
Nope. The replay is sped up a bit.
There is an indication of time-bank usage. The client didn't recognize a disconnect from his end. It would show in the chat box if it had. I doubt there's any way to identify a momentary freeze from the replayer.
I do, or we would have heard of this happening previously since their Bad Beat Jackpot has been in operation daily for a few years now.
Exactly. It doesn't make logical sense.
Every other issue you mentioned is legit criticism of the network.
They do. There are several legit players, even 2+2ers, who won it and even more who have won large shares of it.
Even I was suspicious at first, until I realized it was a recreational player. He might have been one of the luckiest players of all-time, but the high stakes regs were also very lucky in the following weeks.
Hypothetically, let's say they didn't. Their current withdrawal limit per week is 3k.
What would be their reasoning for freezing a hand now, after all of the legit players who have won it in the past at higher jackpot totals?
I agree with this since no player would ever legitimately fold a made bad beat jackpot hand intentionally.
Interesting dilemma though. Let's say a player accidentally or disconnect folds prior to their opponent making their bad beat jackpot hand on a later street. If they make it on the Flop then it's possible that they would have incorrectly raised their opponent out of the hand prior to them making their bad beat qualifying hand. In that case, I'd say no, but yes if both hands were made prior to the unintentional fold.
That's completely made up bullshit. There's a 2+2er who just won it for $80k about a month ago.
There are bot accounts that have won it, but you won't find legitimate proof of these bots being operated by the site. Any rumors are simply that at this point.
I rarely ever have disconnect problems playing there and I can't recall ever having the momentary freeze followed by a fold without a disconnect notice that the OP describes.
I assume you don't play on any of the US friendly sites, because the software stability is a substantial step up from the rest.
He would have never folded intentionally regardless of another person being in the hand or not.
Myself and other 2+2ers commonly used the name "Botonline" in this forum for years and I'll expect royalties for continued use of the name.
Why UNLESS? I feel like it would be a bad decision either way.
It is stolen routinely, but not in the same way that's being described in this thread. Bot accounts have occasionally won the jackpot and regularly win large shares of it. None of that money has ever been reintroduced into the jackpot and we have no idea if it even gets confiscated prior to the bot operators withdrawing the funds.
Show proof of your claims. Oh right, you have none. On the other hand, we do have proof of legitimate players winning it and several more winning large shares of it.
Yes. Not only have I been at the table twice as it occurred with legitimate players winning it, there are also 2+2ers who have actually won it.
Any proof that the recreational player named santinhoz works for them and was subsequently allowed to go lose large sums of that money to high stakes regs?
I can usually count on you to make good points. In a thread full of misinformation you didn't disappoint.
It's mindboggling how stupid, stubborn and short-sighted they've been about this thus far, as well as several other previous decisions they've made.
I agree, that they should do that, at least once.
This is, and has been, a big issue for years when depositing via cards at any of these unregulated sites. It's actually not the sites scamming you. These sites use 3rd party processors for transactions. They are the ones skimming. That is one of the biggest reasons why most people recommend you use crypto for transactions with these sites and why the sites recommend you use crypto as well.
Withdrawal limits were reduced when the sports world went on hiatus. They are a sportsbook first and foremost. It is a bit worrisome that they have not been raised since then though. I'm also not sure how much they do to make players aware of this prior to depositing.
The most interesting thing to me is the handful of known botting accounts listed there. By no means are all, or even a majority, of the account names listed there suspicious accounts, not even the back-to-back winner.
Not true. The recent payouts were less because the bad beat jackpot hand requirements were lowered for that period of time. At the moment, the requirement is the highest it has ever been. You need to lose the hand with quad queens or better to qualify. Both players need to use both hole cards to qualify.
That is definitely a legitimate criticism of the network.
This is unlikely to be an intentional scam based on the history of this bad beat jackpot promotion. Why would they only start doing this now after all of these years?
That is very true.
You bring up a good topic. At one point in the past they actually raised their share for fees taken mid-promotion when the jackpot neared a million dollars. I was pretty vocal with my criticism about that. They've since lowered their share for fees taken.
100%. It's their way of increasing the rake without actually having to show it in their rake charts.
I 100% agree that the conduct of these sites gives online poker a bad look to new and potential players.
It's the same exact bot ring and they've been there for as long as they've been on ACR/WPN.
Don't you regularly play at ACR/WPN and Ignition/Bovada? I can assure you that neither of those options is much better, if at all, and each have had plenty of shadiness take place at their tables over the years.
It grows quickly these days and doesn't get hit as often with the newly implementing requirements for triggering it.
OFC he doesn't.
That Betcoin site was or is part of the Winning Poker Network with ACR, Black Chip and True Poker. It was never part of the Chico Network.
There was some talk about it at the time. Joey probably forgets now, but he mentioned it briefly back then. Even I was initially suspicious until I regularly saw the player at the tables in the following weeks.
It definitely is a bit concerning given the ability to deposit more than that and win more than that at the tables. I assume it will be raised when sports resume, but who knows. The Chico Network makes perplexing and dumb decisions on a regular basis.
We're talking about cash game bots and cash game players. Cash game bots almost never play other formats and not every cash game reg plays a lot of MTTs either.
I think that you nailed it.
Totally agree with everything in the first 2 paragraphs. Not sure about insolvency, but the extended withdrawal cap is a bit concerning and lends credence to the theory.
They've obviously had no issues paying out the jackpot to legitimate players in the past. Even if they had to credit it to an account their weekly withdrawal limit would save them from having to pay it all out at once.
Not only will I guarantee that your cashout will go through(Given you haven't broken any rules). I'd wager on the speed being quicker than at any of the other US friendly sites.
They award the bbj with a message stating that no other players were disconnected but we cannot with 100% assurance say there was not some glitch on our end, therefore in the interest of player concern and the almost certainty this hand would have been okayed out, BOL will award the BBJ.
That bring tons of good cheer and support. Gives the players something positive to discuss on the heels of their VIP points being evaporated. Instead, they opt for not paying anything, or even some conciliatory award, wash their hands of any connection to the disconnect. Even with Apache logs proving there was no issue on their end, it is incredibly stupid PR.
Now, BOL will get an opportunity to deal with massive complaints re this, bots, payout levels, and rewards stolen from players when Ingram posts a video in it, rightly so. "Only" a cpl 100 thousand views to the video and months and months of talking about it. With a rec heavy player field, the impact from it will be well earned.
No chance I believe it is some nefarious action on behalf of BOL, but man did they really shoot themselves with their position here. Super fast payouts and smooth software is not going to be more important in the eyes of a prospective new player or those already feeling disenfranchised.
In a top ten list of epic fails by a poker network, this is right up near the top.
05-28-2020
, 10:30 AM
Quote:
OP also posted a video of what it looks like when he loses internet connection on his end, which doesn't match up with what actually happened during the bbj hand in question.
So the disconnect was clearly NOT on his end (which is what betonline is somehow stating), which leaves us with what....
So the disconnect was clearly NOT on his end (which is what betonline is somehow stating), which leaves us with what....
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