With regard to the Lefort/nba_guru situation, tenderloinig's post absolutely killed it.

To call Lefort a scumbag in this situation is def overboard. But he's certainly not doing the right thing here.

And LOL at going to high stakes regulars for their stamp of approval.

Kind of like Floyd Mayweather coming out in support of Ray Rice...Wonder why?

Have you read Steinbecks "Grapes of Wrath"??

You should write a book, "Pomegranate of Poker"

Because, as you said, he deserves jail time. Who else does and will not receive it is of absolutely 0 relevance.

Jack the Ripper will never see a day in jail, should future murderers therefore go free??

If OP was genuine about paying his victims back. Then he would be working multiple jobs and would only leave himself enough money to survive on bare essentials (Rent/food/electricity). Like others have said, $20/week is a mockery and will take 300 years to pay everyone back at that rate.

People like this will never change. He might make attempts to be a better person. But, in the end he will always revert back to his old ways. I have seen it a million times. Look at how many times he has scammed. He is too far gone just like Mr. Borovetz. He might make some payments back. But, in the end he will be too overwhelmed and greedy to pay everyone back.

Pretty sure this is exactly what would not happen. How many instances do you know of where casinos have been forced to turn over profits from people who gambled using stolen money or drug money? Nor have I ever heard of a retail store being forced to return cash used to purchase goods because the cash turned out to be stolen. If you had this kind of rule in place, the economy would collapse. The only time you will be forced to return stolen cash is if it was given to you. If you came by the cash via a legitimate transaction (i.e. thief comes into your restaurant and uses stolen cash to buy a sandwich or makes a bet with you at a poker table in a legit casino) and you were unaware of the theft when you received the cash, the cash is yours.

Gotta tell ya, you're wrong here. Not to dissuade you from doing the right thing but people have been found guilty of theft for stealing WoW artifacts, and those don't even have a clear monetary value.

You're leaving out some facts here. If you want to analogy to be correct you'd have to add someone in the casino screaming the person was gambling with money just stolen from him, as this is what happened in the chat at the pokertable.

Legally you're correct because you use cash as example, but with almost any other good the example fails and it has to be returned to the original owner that got stolen from even if the buyer/receiver wasn't at fault. With pokerchips you can argue either and I've yet to see an example on how this would be judged in court.

So once you hit 25 (or is it earlier?) your character is locked in and you will never change for the rest of your life no matter what happens?

That's what all poker sites think when they ban a user. It's for life.

Justin clearly was a scumbag. But, if he's doing to make efforts to payback the victims he shouldn't be in jail. Not that he shouldn't be in jail though lol.

OP if you really want to do good I suggest you set up business providing security for poker players. You obviously have the relevant skill knowing the other side of it, which is worth quite some money when using it for the safety of players. This will also allow you to repay your victims and probably quicker than when airbrushing.

Frank Abagnale might be a good inspiration for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale

Excellent post. I hope Lefort reads it; it offers, in my opinion, the best assessment of what happened and what should have been discussed afterwards that I've seen in this or the original thread.

As for Justin, it's very possible he has every intention of paying back the money he scammed; even if he does, though, it's unlikely more than an extremely small fraction of that would ever be paid as it is far harder to make said money legitimately and in so doing, make enough to cover one's own actual expenses plus additional to be paid out. Having the mental fortitude to live as cheaply as possible and watch money you're making disappear to people you owe gets tougher once you start actually doing it rather than daydreaming about it and tougher still as unexpected expenses and desires come along. Comforting one's self with thoughts of repayment feels great; actually shipping said cash in increments large enough to make an actual difference can be another story (depending one's true mindset).

I'm not saying that it's impossible for people to change. I'm just saying that people with repeated behavior like this have a tendency to revert back to their old ways. If Archie is really a changed man then he should be paying people back as much as possible. And $20/week is a joke. He should be working multiple jobs and living on bare essentials. He deserves no sympathy and should pay for what he has done to his victims.

You guys are completely misunderstanding the situation because you're looking at things with the added perspective of this thread. This will be the last time I post about this in this thread as I don't want to derail the OP.

Before anybody says what they think I was obligated to do morally, they should read the OP (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...posed-1302905/) and see how things unraveled originally.

A player sat me on Cake and lost a few flips with a failed bluff for a total of $5k. Player berates me a ton before leaving the table. Then nba_guru accuses me of hacking him and cheating and having the money chip dumped to me. Anyone who plays high stakes regularly knows this happens frequently.. frantic degens always trying to beg/scam known high stakes players in various ways. If I entertained every observer who told me a sob story about how they lost their money, I'd have no time to play poker.

However, nba_guru started a thread on 2p2 so I thought okay, maybe he wasn't just a degen making up a story. I posted to explain what my experiences were, and to defend myself against his accusations of me stealing his money somehow. Keep in mind that at this point, nba_guru was relatively new to 2p2, someone with a very low post count, sounded a little childish, and was throwing around accusations at long-time reputable 2p2ers with zero justification. He didn't exactly gain a lot of my respect after all of the names he was calling me for all of the bad things I did to him.

Once it started to become more of a possibility that n_g was indeed hacked, I started bringing the issue to every HS reg I knew that was online. Literally every single one said it would be absurd for anyone to think I was morally obligated to give back the money. Anybody who plays HSPLO knows that it's incredibly easy/common for a fish to run up 5+ buyins on you in a very short period of time. If the scammer had of won $30k from me winning every flip, is n_g responsible for owing me $30k because the money was won from me with stolen money due to his lack of due diligence?

Also, I think it's pretty absurd to play the card that because I'm a long-time high stakes player and because the money meant a lot to n_g, I have more of a moral obligation to return the money. Just because you're a high stakes pro doesn't mean you're rich and in a position to be handing out $5k to various victims of scammers.

You seem to be missing out on the responsibility of the victim to be doing their due diligence before making transfers in a market with no regulatory agencies. It seems incredibly clear to me that the responsibility is entirely on the victim. You have to understand the risk before making p2p transfers with strangers on the internet. You can't just hope that if you get scammed, the person who was lucky enough to win a flip for your money is going to be philanthropic enough to give it back.

And again, the fact that I'm a high stakes grinder and n_g is a low stakes grinder should have no bearing on the moral actions stemming from the situation. For all you know, my net worth could be negative.

Lastly, a few months after this issue I posted a thread where I'd been scammed for $52k, > 10x the amount n_g was scammed. In my situation, I did not make the stupid mistake of trusting a random stranger for a p2p transfer. I made the mistake of trusting an entire corporation to be able to make player payments. Here was n_g's compassionate response: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...97&postcount=7

Again, this is my last post so if anyone has anything further to say and wants me to read it, pm me. Thanks.

90% of that post isn't needed,so much useless information in there. You won stolen money and acted like a dick then about it and still acting like a dick now. You show your true colors many times.

Last response in this thread because you don't want to derail the thread? Or because more and more ppl are starting to call you out?

Please stop referring to every single reputable poster you consulted about this previously. U have the same interests, of course they will side with you.

It's pretty simple, are you OBLIGATED to pay him back his funds? No.

Would it be the optimal, morally correct thing to do? Of course.

Ur not a scumbag Lefort. And did what 95% (IMO) of the general population would do in a situation like this.

Nba_guru and lefort, it's time to move on now. Let's focus on the religious nutcase instead.

Read the first few pages and had to stop, was giving me the chills. I got scammed for 70k in 2007 (over half my roll at the time) after opening a link that was sent to me in skype by a POS. Thankfully back then one could easily rebuild a roll and I soon recovered.

Obviously I've been extra vigilant since. Best of luck to anyone who ever tries to scam me again of my hard earned. If anyone succeeds again then I make zero apology about saying that all my morals will go out the window and I will get them.

@ OP : Yeah you are apparently trying to make good, for now anyway. But as someone already said: Your making good is only coming after reaching the end of the line. How honest are you really and how honest will you remain? Sorry bro but fu & f your God

Everything that was mentioned in this thread about DDOS, and how to avoid it, was known 6 years ago. Any way to find the old thread?

#lefortaments

If lefort would have lost 10k to the guy with your stolen money what would be the correct thing that needs to be done? Lefort wouldn't have played him so that money would never have been lost. Who would have the responsibility of paying lefort back because the thief won that money in an actual poker game so it wouldnt be the thief. Does that mean every poker player who wins money has to be fearful of winning stolen money and have to pay it back knowing that if he loses to a guy playing with stolen money he will never receive any of his money back?

It sucks to get scammed but i want to know what everyone thinks the solution would be for if lefort had lost the money. If the agreement is that he doesnt get his money back then this sounds like a freeroll for you.

FYP

Please answer this one:

Did you write the keylogger, buy it, or what?

I don't know what justin's living situation is like and dont think anybody here does. If he has to pay 20/week to 10 people then hes at least paying out 800 a month. My first thought is hes trying to do whats right but after a few months he will get tired of paying out so much money every month and quit making the payments but if hes actually doing it at least its a start. Its not like anybody can just go out and get a high paying job that will allow him pay back the 300k in under 10 years and since hes chosen to do picking fruits i assume that pays very little so people will never get their full amount back but its still better then nothing right?