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Michael Borovetz, I believe he tried to scam me at McCarran Airport 6-22-14 Michael Borovetz, I believe he tried to scam me at McCarran Airport 6-22-14

08-06-2014 , 09:48 PM
This guy basically did what Borovetz did and got two years jail time, granted he claimed he had concert and sporting events tickets and took money for nothing, but this basically what Borovetz is doing if you see the pattern of constant borrowing and virtually never paying back......http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1948923
08-06-2014 , 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovedonks
He can't just DECIDE to get a job, stop gambling and scamming. He needs our help!!
Yes he can. Just like everyone else, Mike can decide to do whatever he wants. Would it be harder to enter the workforce and hold a real job that doesn't involve being a con artist? Sure it would! But that doesn't mean he can't decide to do it. Oh, and I don't want to hear for the thousandth time that he has a "disease", because anyone that commits a crime can use that excuse. If that's your excuse for Mike, than I guess everyone in prison has a "disease".
08-06-2014 , 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
He may be a prosecutor, but his judgment is clouded by his hate for mike. No prosecutor is gonna fool with this type of case. How is this not obvious to people on this site? Mike came clean in his original post and stated that he needs help. Note to Poker Community: Help this guy. Quit bashing a guy when he is down.
Yea, I guess with your vast legal expertise I'll take your opinion over that of a lawyer and prosecutor. I am so sorry I ever doubted you.
08-06-2014 , 10:02 PM
Waiting for fish taco's reply, should be good
08-06-2014 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
He may be a prosecutor, but his judgment is clouded by his hate for mike. No prosecutor is gonna fool with this type of case. How is this not obvious to people on this site? Mike came clean in his original post and stated that he needs help. Note to Poker Community: Help this guy. Quit bashing a guy when he is down.
Maybe Mike will show up in Justice Court in Las Vegas on August 21, when he is ordered to appear for an arraignment and "come clean" to an active criminal charge, likely similar to whatever you deem to be "this type of case" ?
08-06-2014 , 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YappingYoda
Waiting for fish taco's reply, should be good
I will reply for the fish. The fact that you can find only three cases or six cases that have been prosecuted out of millions of cases in the U.S. proves the point. Prosecutors are just not gonna fool with these cases. It is not worth their time of effort. The court system has turned into a profit center for many cities and counties. They want cases that they can settle quick and make easy money on. Traffic tickets are a good example. In Houston, they give out tons of tickets. Most people just pay them without thinking. If you actually show up for court, most times the tickets get dismissed. Usually, the cop doesn't show up. Case dismissed. The same thing would happen to Mike. No witness. case dismissed.
08-06-2014 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
I will explain this one more time since there is still confusion on this matter. In order to arrest mike the cops would have to see him take the money or hear about it from the "victim". Then the cops would have to follow Mike and verify that he used the money in a way other than what he told the "victim". Then they would have to verify that he did not pay the "victim" back. Of course, the "victim" would most likely be in another town and would not want to come back to testify if the cops did all the steps above. So, no prosecutor is ever gonna be dumb enough to try to convict Mike. Just to clarify, it is not a crime to ask someone for $200.00 to stay in a hotel.
The trespass ticket that Mike got and the haters posted on here will most likely be dismissed or he will be fined $150.00....even though technically he could get a $1000 fine and 6 months in jail. Prosecutors are not gonna waste time on minor offenses like these.
You are incorrect in just about everything that you've written here. Do you really think law enforcement hasn't caught up with the modern digital age? Hell, I'm a prosecutor who posts on this board and I know there are multiple other posters who are cops. There are plenty of internet-aware people working in law enforcement.

All the arguments for "this is no big deal," and "Mike will never get into trouble, it's not criminal.." etc. etc. seem to fall into two camps.

1. The "It's not a crime!" camp; and

2. The "It's such a minor crime law enforcement will never care or do anything about it!" camp.

For the it's not a crime camp, i don't know what else I can do to convince you if you're so willfully blind to even the plain language of the statutes I cited and the jury instructions for those statutes. You're either too dense to see why it's a crime or you are just trolling.

For the "It's a minor crime, law enforcement would never do anything about it!" camp, you are missing one key piece here. If this was just Borovetz scamming one guy for $200, you're right, its highly likely that it would never be pursued. But we're not talking about one victim, or $200. We're talking about hundreds of victims over a decade for what is likely well into six figure territory. We're talking about a guy who presumably now has been banned and trespassed from multiple airports yet keeps returning to them to continue his crimes. We're talking about a second felony offender with multiple priors including his previous felony conviction. This is definitely the kind of situation where law enforcement and local prosecutors are going to be willing to invest some resources to get a serial scammer and public nuisance off the street for a decent amount of time.

Further, at least in New York, if he's been trespassed from the aiport the way he appears to have been in Las Vegas, we're not just talking misdemeanors anymore, we're talking felony charges for a guy with a previous felony which locks him into mandatory minimum prison sentences if convicted. So believe me, don't believe me, whatever, but Borovetz is going to end up back in prison eventually for this shtick.
08-06-2014 , 10:37 PM
I believe mike will show up for his court case because he has learned his lesson from the probation violations he had in the past. I am not sure what the charges are, but I will guess he is charged with trespassing and not "scamming" as you poker donks call it. if that is the case, I am sure he will get a slap on the wrist or case dismissed. The cop may not even show up. Who knows?
08-06-2014 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Taco
Yes I had a few interactions with that poster. If what he stated was true (and I'm not saying it is or isn't) then why hasn't Mike been prosecuted? Do you really think that he has never been brought to the attention of LE before?
Do you really think he has never been prosecuted before?

Quote:
See the thing is you have to prove his intent which is pretty much impossible to do.
Unless, of course, he just happenned to post a public confession....

Quote:
Sure we all know he probably never intended to pay anything back but he has already paid some people back and you actually have to be able to prove he didn't intend to pay them back. The legal system works by proof not speculation.
See above.

Quote:
He's not offering people services or return on their money which is what makes this pretty much legal.
Not even the least bit legal. He's offering a promise to pay the money back when he knows he has no intention of doing so. Further, at the time he is getting the money he is doing so by lying about material facts. See the larceny by false pretenses, larceny by false promise definitions that I posted earlier in the thread.

Quote:
He promises (by word of mouth, no legal contract) to pay people back and then doesn't. A promise by word of mouth is not a legal binding contract.
You are confusing criminal and contract law. Getting somebody to give up property by false pretenses or by false promise is still larceny, irrespective of whether you had an in writing contract.

Quote:
Considering he is still living then he can say he still has the intentions of paying people back and you can't prove other wise.
Well, beyond the fact, again, that he has confessed, the multiple multiple scams he has pulled certainly tend to establish that his intent was not to pay people back.

Quote:
By not having a legal written contract the specifies when this money should be paid back then you can't really say he hasn't paid it back yet because their is no set date.
Confusing criminal and contract law again.

Quote:
Just because I have a different opinion than you or someone else doesn't mean I'm sticking up for Mike. I think I've called him a scumbag numerous times in fact. I just don't think what he did is all that terrible.

So what kind of person am I since you know me so well?
I know this wasn't directed to me, but I'll shoot. I think you're a person who's moral compass is a little off and who doesn't really understand the topic that you are speaking about.
08-06-2014 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
You are incorrect in just about everything that you've written here. Do you really think law enforcement hasn't caught up with the modern digital age? Hell, I'm a prosecutor who posts on this board and I know there are multiple other posters who are cops. There are plenty of internet-aware people working in law enforcement.

All the arguments for "this is no big deal," and "Mike will never get into trouble, it's not criminal.." etc. etc. seem to fall into two camps.

1. The "It's not a crime!" camp; and

2. The "It's such a minor crime law enforcement will never care or do anything about it!" camp.

For the it's not a crime camp, i don't know what else I can do to convince you if you're so willfully blind to even the plain language of the statutes I cited and the jury instructions for those statutes. You're either too dense to see why it's a crime or you are just trolling.

For the "It's a minor crime, law enforcement would never do anything about it!" camp, you are missing one key piece here. If this was just Borovetz scamming one guy for $200, you're right, its highly likely that it would never be pursued. But we're not talking about one victim, or $200. We're talking about hundreds of victims over a decade for what is likely well into six figure territory. We're talking about a guy who presumably now has been banned and trespassed from multiple airports yet keeps returning to them to continue his crimes. We're talking about a second felony offender with multiple priors including his previous felony conviction. This is definitely the kind of situation where law enforcement and local prosecutors are going to be willing to invest some resources to get a serial scammer and public nuisance off the street for a decent amount of time.

Further, at least in New York, if he's been trespassed from the aiport the way he appears to have been in Las Vegas, we're not just talking misdemeanors anymore, we're talking felony charges for a guy with a previous felony which locks him into mandatory minimum prison sentences if convicted. So believe me, don't believe me, whatever, but Borovetz is going to end up back in prison eventually for this shtick.
Nice closing argument. And yet we still see Mike at the Airport smiling for the camera and not in jail.
08-06-2014 , 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
I will reply for the fish. The fact that you can find only three cases or six cases that have been prosecuted out of millions of cases in the U.S. proves the point.
I spent about three minutes doing a Google News search for recent similar cases, and figured three was enough. I didn't think I needed to do a legal database query and find hundreds or thousands in order to prove that an illegal act was committed.

Seems like you're trying to show something different than I was -- it's a crime but nobody cares, I guess?
08-06-2014 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Taco
Finally....someone see's the light!!!!!!



Judge's don't prosecute so it doesn't matter what he wants.

Except for you can't just stick people in prison. They have to actually commit crimes that carry prison sentences. So far I have yet to see anything that would carry a prison sentence.

Trespassing is trespassing...except for construction sites.
He could very easily wind up in prison in New York for what he's doing, here's how:

In New York there is a crime that is colloquially referred to as a "trespass burglary," here is how it works:

Burglary in the Third Degree is a class 'D' felony in New York. The statute reads as follows:


A person is guilty of burglary in the third degree when he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit a crime therein.

Burglary in the third degree is a class D felony.


There are two essential elements:

1. That a person knowingly and unlawfully enters a building; and
2. That when the person does so they are doing so with the intent to commit a crime (any crime) in the building.

So burglary is really nothing more than trespass + the intent to commit a separate crime when you are trespassing.

The trespass burglary is commonly used in New York. One common example are the serial shoplifters who keep hitting the same big box stores. A person steals from Walmart, so he's arrested for larceny and Walmart gives him a trespass notice telling him he is banned from the store. The person comes back after that again and he can be charged with burglary. It is designed that way to deter tons of repeat criminal conduct.

If Mike has been banned from JFK, and continues to go there and scam people, then he can be charged with burglary third.

Mike is also what is known as a second felony offender because of his prior felony conviction. In New York that designation carries with it mandatory prison time for any felony conviction. For a class D felony like burglary, he would get a mandatory indeterminate prison sentence if convicted.
08-06-2014 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist


It must be the equivalent to lawyers what YouTube comments about poker strategy are to professional players.
That's a fair analogy.
08-06-2014 , 10:57 PM
I appreciate the legal people chiming in, but the proof is in the puddin. Mike has been scamming for 15 yrs with little to no jail time….This thread is not going to hurt his future chances of avoiding jail time.
08-06-2014 , 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
I believe mike will show up for his court case because he has learned his lesson from the probation violations he had in the past. I am not sure what the charges are, but I will guess he is charged with trespassing and not "scamming" as you poker donks call it. if that is the case, I am sure he will get a slap on the wrist or case dismissed. The cop may not even show up. Who knows?
Lol this is the biggest fallacy/urban legend of the criminal justice system and shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you think the cop needs to show up for what appears to be a routine court appearance that is not a trial?

Also, why do you think he was trespassed/banned from the airports? Because he was trying to run his scam and people obviously complained!
08-06-2014 , 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
Nice closing argument. And yet we still see Mike at the Airport smiling for the camera and not in jail.
Except for when he's cooling his jets in the local jails... And this of course is before he posted a public confession on a large well known discussion forum..
08-06-2014 , 11:09 PM
Everyone keeps talking about the legal ramifications of his actions. Bottom line is the guy is pretty corrupt and a total mess. He's been in prison before and he will be back there again. He knows it, too. No way he can possibly avoid it with his lifestyle. At least when he goes away next time, he won't have to worry about defrauding an innkeeper because he will have all expenses paid.
08-06-2014 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
Lol this is the biggest fallacy/urban legend of the criminal justice system and shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you think the cop needs to show up for what appears to be a routine court appearance that is not a trial?

Also, why do you think he was trespassed/banned from the airports? Because he was trying to run his scam and people obviously complained!
Here is the issue, mike gets a trespassing charge instead of something related to his scam. You legal folks chime in here does't this point prove that Mikes scam is less than a crime or he would be charged. no?
08-06-2014 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerFan2008
I appreciate the legal people chiming in, but the proof is in the puddin. Mike has been scamming for 15 yrs with little to no jail time….This thread is not going to hurt his future chances of avoiding jail time.
Yes, according to these lawyers /prosecutors, the main evidence against Mike is his own confession in this thread. I am not sure how that would hold up in court. He could be fabricating the whole story to juice up his book deal. Someone else could be posting bogus confessions in his name. He is already accused of having multiple accounts. Why couldn't anyone post under his name?
If you really think that Las Vegas or New York City is gonna send cops to the airport on stakeout to look for mike, then you, Mr. Lawyer/Prosecutor are delusional. Also, there are many other cities that he could work that do not know him.
Mike has stated that he needs help and wants to change. People on this site should be looking for ways to point him in the right direction, not trying to get him in trouble with the law.
08-06-2014 , 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
Lol this is the biggest fallacy/urban legend of the criminal justice system and shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you think the cop needs to show up for what appears to be a routine court appearance that is not a trial?

Also, why do you think he was trespassed/banned from the airports? Because he was trying to run his scam and people obviously complained!

This is not a fallacy/urban legend. I have first hand experience with this situation in Houston/Harris County. I am 10 for 10 in beating tickets in these two jurisdictions. The only time I pay a ticket is when I get one driving to and from Louisiana for work. I don't want to drive back to the town I got the ticket in. In Houston/Harris County I usually do one or two resets and then schedule a jury trial. I have yet to get called on my bluff.
(grech and jman and the other lawyer guy.....please do not google me and report my transgressions.)
08-06-2014 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
Yes, according to these lawyers /prosecutors, the main evidence against Mike is his own confession in this thread. I am not sure how that would hold up in court. He could be fabricating the whole story to juice up his book deal. Someone else could be posting bogus confessions in his name. He is already accused of having multiple accounts. Why couldn't anyone post under his name?
If you really think that Las Vegas or New York City is gonna send cops to the airport on stakeout to look for mike, then you, Mr. Lawyer/Prosecutor are delusional. Also, there are many other cities that he could work that do not know him.
Mike has stated that he needs help and wants to change. People on this site should be looking for ways to point him in the right direction, not trying to get him in trouble with the law.
I've already explained multiple times in this thread how it would hold up in court, not going to repeat it again.

mchine joined in November of 2013, yet it appears that all of his posts were made starting on July 7th, his first post appears to have been in this thread, and nearly every other post was in this thread, or in other threads but making fun of people like gzesh from this thread. It seems pretty likely that he is Borovetz.
08-06-2014 , 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
Yes, according to these lawyers /prosecutors, the main evidence against Mike is his own confession in this thread. I am not sure how that would hold up in court. He could be fabricating the whole story to juice up his book deal. Someone else could be posting bogus confessions in his name. He is already accused of having multiple accounts. Why couldn't anyone post under his name?
If you really think that Las Vegas or New York City is gonna send cops to the airport on stakeout to look for mike, then you, Mr. Lawyer/Prosecutor are delusional. Also, there are many other cities that he could work that do not know him.
And those same impostors conducted multiple podcast interviews by somehow managing to sound exactly like him??


Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
Mike has stated that he needs help and wants to change. People on this site should be looking for ways to point him in the right direction, not trying to get him in trouble with the law.
For your sake I hope you simply haven't read much of the thread; otherwise I'm not sure you know how to read.
08-06-2014 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
This is not a fallacy/urban legend. I have first hand experience with this situation in Houston/Harris County. I am 10 for 10 in beating tickets in these two jurisdictions. The only time I pay a ticket is when I get one driving to and from Louisiana for work. I don't want to drive back to the town I got the ticket in. In Houston/Harris County I usually do one or two resets and then schedule a jury trial. I have yet to get called on my bluff.
(grech and jman and the other lawyer guy.....please do not google me and report my transgressions.)
Even if this is true, those are traffic tickets... Do you think the rest of the criminal justice system really operates in that manner?
08-06-2014 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
I will reply for the fish. The fact that you can find only three cases or six cases that have been prosecuted out of millions of cases in the U.S. proves the point. Prosecutors are just not gonna fool with these cases. It is not worth their time of effort. The court system has turned into a profit center for many cities and counties. They want cases that they can settle quick and make easy money on. Traffic tickets are a good example. In Houston, they give out tons of tickets. Most people just pay them without thinking. If you actually show up for court, most times the tickets get dismissed. Usually, the cop doesn't show up. Case dismissed. The same thing would happen to Mike. No witness. case dismissed.
You're answer is so child-like I'm not sure it deserves a reply, but I'll try anyways..millions of cases? So because his case isn't the same as murder, rape, terrorism, child abuse, or assault (which are a large percentage of the millions of other cases) it doesn't count? So I guess you need a million cases like Mike's before he's guilty? Ok, now I see what I'm arguing against.

      
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