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FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP) FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)
View Poll Results: Do you want the AGCC to regulate the new FTP?
Yes
1,156 56.58%
No
887 43.42%

05-26-2012 , 11:30 AM
Ok believe in what u want , u have here 40000 posts and i guess there will be 40000 again to chose from in 2 months
I told me opinion based in what my friend told me , hes he right ? no idea
But from my knowledge in business i would say soon there will be no news
but i would love to be wrong
05-26-2012 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJuliusDhelas
I just know someone who worked for pocketkings in dublin , all recent hired positions are being sacked by 31 may( they where hired when tapie was still in negotiations)

IMO this means no agreement soon (3-4 months)
I believe those are all the Tapie based temp employees.

A few things on the employment front.

1) Stars does not need to hire essentially from scratch like gbt was having to do.

2) if FTP is bought there is still no guarantee it would be run seperately.

Employment news is very different for this one then the other one. Stars could boost their own employment in perpetration for this. Hiring through pocket kings is not likely how stars would deal with it at this time.
05-26-2012 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiller866
I agree they do have that right, assuming they exercise it for regulatory reasons rather than competitive, the Supreme Court of Washington State gave serious commerce clause consideration as to whether or not it's state had the authority to allow tribal poker, but deny internet competition, in the end they determined that the right of the State to guard it's citizens against the additional (underage, addiction) concerns inherent with internet gambling balanced fair trade concerns.

Because NY actually permits gambling on the internet (horse racing), it's not settled law to assume that the courts would also rule in favor of the State of New York if they were also to exercise their right to prohibit foreign internet poker competition.

More importantly, we don't know the answer to that question because New York failed to even attempt to exercise that right, rather they seemingly relied upon the notion that an archaic 1961 federal law protected them from outside competition.
I think the difference in our opinions comes from the fact that you equate tribal gaming regulation with the regulation of internet gaming offered from a sovereign nation. I don't think the analogy is applicable. Congress has given the tribal nations special status that operators like FTP don't have.

Additionally, while the Corbazon case discussed the prohibitory versus regulatory distinction, the Court did not find that issue dispositive or controlling. The Court's decision turned on other issues (the comparative importance of state, federal and tribal interests) that are not applicable to this situation.

What Justice White actually said was: "We conclude that the State's interest in preventing the infiltration of the tribal bingo enterprises by organized crime does not justify state regulation of the tribal bingo enterprises in light of the compelling federal and tribal interests supporting them. State regulation would impermissibly infringe on tribal government, and this conclusion applies equally to the county's attempted regulation of the Cabazon card club."

The court balanced the crime prevention interests of California and the economic development interests of the federal government and the tribe and found the latter to be more compelling.

While there was some discussion of "regulatory" versus "prohibitory" there was equal discussion of the importance of the activity occurring solely on tribal land and discussion of why state's were allowed to tax tobacco sales to customers who did little more than drive on and drive off the reservation; the case was not decided on these issues and discussion of them is merely dicta.
05-26-2012 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
I believe those are all the Tapie based temp employees.

A few things on the employment front.

1) Stars does not need to hire essentially from scratch like gbt was having to do.

2) if FTP is bought there is still no guarantee it would be run seperately.

Employment news is very different for this one then the other one. Stars could boost their own employment in perpetration for this. Hiring through pocket kings is not likely how stars would deal with it at this time.
From yr words it seems FTP disappears and Stars assimilates all (debt,softw,personal etc) well maybe its possible for ex to have 2,3 softwares available prob tecnically etc (and players would chose that in the options)
I dont understand how can a major company having like 80% of share market
is going to buy the other major company (wich before BF was prob stars 60 , FTP 30 rest10) seems really strange they just dont need them they are bankrupt , now if stars thinks ok FTP has 40k players with $ there we buy all , pay all , delete FTP then these 40k players will play in stars and we enter the USA market somet like this seems better really
Having 2 companies means more costs in market,people, installations etcetc
It seems more logic to just keep 1 brand cut costs

Last edited by MrJuliusDhelas; 05-26-2012 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Add
05-26-2012 , 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Get It
God I hate Kentucky for wasting my money doing this.

Also WTF:
I'm surprised that no enterprising poker journalist has not been down to the courthouse to see what Kentucky actually demanded at this conference.
05-26-2012 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by themuppets
This meme really only works if the post being replied to isn't from someone who is known in the industry.

ib4 joeyrulesall reveals the shocking truth that Jasep1980 has a stake in VPR, though.
Don't need anyone to come in with a huge reveal... I am a partner in VPR. I'm not here to promote anything or give anyone info that will lead to them getting paid, all I am saying is I happened to be present for one conversation, and the reporting of that conversation was true.
05-26-2012 , 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASEP1980
I am really hesitant to post in this thread... I just actually sat and read through it for the first time and it took me forever...

First, I don't have money locked up on Full Tilt, I really feel for those of you who do

The only thing I can tell you is that I was present for the conversation China had with his source right around May 1st. I can't speak at all to any of the information that China talked about afterwards because I was not present for any of those conversations. I just happened to be present for the initial conversation where the person who he is referring to as his source said to China that the deal was pretty much done and an announcement would be made around the 3rd week of May.

The only few things I am willing to say is that China's initial post on May 1st was completely accurate to the conversation that was had and that the source is indeed someone who is in the know (inside) to this whole situation.

I will also say that me personally, knowing China as well as I do, trust everything he is saying here.

I'm not trolling or trying to get involved in a long drawn out debate, I am also not looking to take over any role as investigative journalist for this whole story. I just thought I would come in and tell you all what I was present for. I have no more information than what is in this post and there is no shot I will say who China's source is.

When you say in the know you mean CEO/coo/CFO chief legal counsel level right? Because it has always been questionable in terms of what some people think an in the know employed at stars is. Also since China previously claimed a stars source that did not work for stars and a matusow source that was not a matusow sticking up for him is nice.

I just want you to really know that someone in the know sitting around chatting with you guys about this. Was it a senior level stars exec? If not they are not in the know and just another misguided soul trying to trade on a little speculation for authoritative adulation.

It is unfortunate that you and your eyewitness testimony to this top senior level stars executive did not surface until after china left the thread.

I have vowed not to talk about him but unfortunately it seems china by proxy is the new thing.
05-26-2012 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit
If a deal gets done or if the deal goes bust, PS and FTP and DOJ will let you know in no uncertain terms one way or the other! It won't be some half ass "pokernews" site, and it won't be some 2+2er "in the know" pretending to be Nostradamus. For now,all posters can do is "Rave On" till something meaningfull actully happens, so what? No harm done except a few hurt egos!
where are all the doj and ftp announcements of previous deals that went bust?

If they didn't announce those when they fell through, why would they announce this one if it goes bust?
05-26-2012 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gioco
I think the difference in our opinions comes from the fact that you equate tribal gaming regulation with the regulation of internet gaming offered from a sovereign nation. I don't think the analogy is applicable. Congress has given the tribal nations special status that operators like FTP don't have.

Additionally, while the Corbazon case discussed the prohibitory versus regulatory distinction, the Court did not find that issue dispositive or controlling. The Court's decision turned on other issues (the comparative importance of state, federal and tribal interests) that are not applicable to this situation.

What Justice White actually said was: "We conclude that the State's interest in preventing the infiltration of the tribal bingo enterprises by organized crime does not justify state regulation of the tribal bingo enterprises in light of the compelling federal and tribal interests supporting them. State regulation would impermissibly infringe on tribal government, and this conclusion applies equally to the county's attempted regulation of the Cabazon card club."

The court balanced the crime prevention interests of California and the economic development interests of the federal government and the tribe and found the latter to be more compelling.

While there was some discussion of "regulatory" versus "prohibitory" there was equal discussion of the importance of the activity occurring solely on tribal land and discussion of why state's were allowed to tax tobacco sales to customers who did little more than drive on and drive off the reservation; the case was not decided on these issues and discussion of them is merely dicta.
I'm not suggesting that there is some prevailing judicial precedent guaranteeing that PS would beat the illegal gambling business charges, if there was, the judge would have already dismissed the case.

There are obvious differences from any previous cases, and political concerns play a role (though they shouldn't), not to mention the fact that winning the case wouldn't make all their problems go away, there are still other states where they did business which had internet specific gambling prohibitions that could indict them on their way out of the courthouse.

I'm simply saying it's no where close to a slam dunk, and SDNY would have serious egg on their face if they lost, so both sides may be motivated to reach an agreement but the idea that PS would accept a deal at any cost for fears of having their business seized are unfounded - the deal has to make some fiscal sense.
05-26-2012 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollWave
where are all the doj and ftp announcements of previous deals that went bust?

If they didn't announce those when they fell through, why would they announce this one if it goes bust?
There was an announcement by GBT, so I'm sure you can at the very least expect one from PS.
05-26-2012 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder
There was an announcement by GBT, so I'm sure you can at the very least expect one from PS.
i doubt stars will announce something fell through when they don't even announce it exists.

R.I.P online Poker

if they don't get the players paid this **** ****ing scumbag scammer industry will have lost me as a regular rake paying customer forever and hopefully many more players will stop supporting this scumbag industry by stopping to play!
05-26-2012 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder
There was an announcement by GBT, so I'm sure you can at the very least expect one from PS.
GBT let it be known they were in talks to acquire FTP and Stars has been silent(probably a good thing). Remember all the leaks and quotes from GBT lawyers and all their Bull ****. It's why I never thought much of GBT or thought they were ever going to close the deal. Prior to GBT others were in negotiations to buy FTP and we never really heard who they were there was no announcement made by them wen the deal as off. So it's possible that Stars never makes an announcement if the deals dies.
05-26-2012 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiller866
I'm surprised that no enterprising poker journalist has not been down to the courthouse to see what Kentucky actually demanded at this conference.
I don't know how enterprising I am, and some don't even recognize me as a journalist, but does it count if I already posted all about this a couple weeks ago? This followed some nonsense reports that the attorney for the Commonwealth of Ky stood up in court and stopped the deal while demanding $ 275M, which was hogwash.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=3326
05-26-2012 , 02:37 PM
[QUOTE=MrJuliusDhelas;32992217](wich before BF was prob stars 60 , FTP 30 rest10)

where did you pull these #s ?
05-26-2012 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond_Flush
I don't know how enterprising I am, and some don't even recognize me as a journalist, but does it count if I already posted all about this a couple weeks ago? This followed some nonsense reports that the attorney for the Commonwealth of Ky stood up in court and stopped the deal while demanding $ 275M, which was hogwash.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=3326
Soothsayer imo.

But, DF, does anything jump out at you from those docs? Or at they all old news/ standard stuff?
05-26-2012 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
When you say in the know you mean CEO/coo/CFO chief legal counsel level right? Because it has always been questionable in terms of what some people think an in the know employed at stars is. Also since China previously claimed a stars source that did not work for stars and a matusow source that was not a matusow sticking up for him is nice.

I just want you to really know that someone in the know sitting around chatting with you guys about this. Was it a senior level stars exec? If not they are not in the know and just another misguided soul trying to trade on a little speculation for authoritative adulation.

It is unfortunate that you and your eyewitness testimony to this top senior level stars executive did not surface until after china left the thread.

I have vowed not to talk about him but unfortunately it seems china by proxy is the new thing.
The only ones "In the know" here I believe would be those who are actually in the room actively taking part in the discussions. I also do not think that they are going to come out and breathe a word of what's going on to anyone.
There is also a lot of groundwork to cover in this situation. It's not like buying a new car or house. For someone to come out and say a month or so I don't see it happening that quick.
Just my opinion for what it's worth.
05-26-2012 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoALL
Portuguese with pokerstrategy said that he was fired
http://pt.pokerstrategy.com/forum/th...user=0&page=69
translate.google
Quote:
Hi guys!

I came here to give you an update of recent events and unfortunately, I have good news. Frown

Things should be resolved in principle to the four last Friday, but apparently it did not. Because there has been an impasse in negotiations, resulted in the company having to terminate the contract of all the people who started working there recently, including my own.
This means that as of May 31, I no longer part of the staff of Pocket Kings. Crying

I'm very sad because things were going up very well, had excellent feedback and always kept the hope that sooner or later, everything would be solved positively. The atmosphere was great after all, the staff was already working it was flawless, including management.

I am also disappointed with myself because I ventured to go to work for this company even though things could not possibly work (as happened) and is now unemployed, put my family in a difficult position.

We do not explain the reasons of things which have not been resolved so far, but also not ruled out a possible agreement in the medium term. Apparently this caught everyone by surprise and due to financial issues, the PK was forced to terminate the contracts of staff soon.

I would have come here with more positive news, but unfortunately not the case. There is a general feeling of insecurity on the part of all staff who work there and now can only hope that something positive happen in the future.

That's it guys ... do not lose hope but at the same time, do not create many expectations in the short term there is some decision about this whole situation. Unfortunately my adventure in PK was shorter than I thought but as the saying goes, "when one door closes, another opens."

Now I take a stroll to the beach with the family, which is a warm day and sunny here in Dublin, something not very common in these parts! When the sun appears, it must enjoy it while it lasts Tongue

Regards to all! Wink
05-26-2012 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Get It
Soothsayer imo.

But, DF, does anything jump out at you from those docs? Or at they all old news/ standard stuff?
If you mean the actual docs re the May 8 hearing, I also posted about that here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=3335
05-26-2012 , 02:54 PM
Is there any significance to the May 9 and May 24 entries?
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/new...v02564/377900/
05-26-2012 , 03:40 PM
So how bad do you guys think this news is regarding the workforce getting fired? Is it in any way significant?
05-26-2012 , 03:43 PM
He was hired by Tapie, wasn`t he? So no connection I think.

I`m really tired of this saga, would just like to know if we `ll get our money or no, that`s all.
05-26-2012 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1
He was hired by Tapie, wasn`t he? So no connection I think.

I`m really tired of this saga, would just like to know if we `ll get our money or no, that`s all.
totally agree. I believe most of us with money in their are fed up by now, i think

that seeing Lederer, Ferguson, Bitar and the rest in jail would make me happier

even if i dont get my money, the emotional damage and stress that they have

done to us cannot be counted into dollars.
05-26-2012 , 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicarius
So how bad do you guys think this news is regarding the workforce getting fired? Is it in any way significant?
As the poster above mentioned he was most likely part of those "new" employees attached to a potential Tapie deal (all of them on short contracts). Stars only needs the main guys that know the software and other important aspects of the site for a quick and successful re-launch.
05-26-2012 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1
He was hired by Tapie, wasn`t he? So no connection I think.
No, he was hired by Pocket Kings in anticipation of the GBT (or any) deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwut666
As the poster above mentioned he was most likely part of those "new" employees attached to a potential Tapie deal (all of them on short contracts). Stars only needs the main guys that know the software and other important aspects of the site for a quick and successful re-launch.
I'd love to see it like this but it's very hard to after reading the post by the Portuguese gentleman. If these people were being fired because the GBT deal fell through they would've been let go weeks ago. They were hired because of the GBT deal looking like it was going through and then kept on the last several weeks as the PokerStars deal looked solid. Having these people be let go has to be seen as a pretty bad sign, IMO.

Yes, there is a chance that the deal is closing and PokerStars said "hey PocketKings, we're going to expand our own workforce to handle FTP so we don't need any of those people". I might be inclined to believe that, except that he specifically refers to negotiations reaching an impasse, etc. It's possible that he's just rehashing office rumor and doesn't really know the full story, I guess. We'll see.
05-26-2012 , 04:56 PM
Well stated sir

Although an impasse is very possible its not an auto-kill of the deal. It can be an issue at the moment but can also be taken care of over time. I have a feeling Stars would have loooooved to finish up a deal before the WSOP and step in the Amazon looking like saviors. Next interesting date for them might be the Main in early July.

      
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