This has been a debacle and so poorly managed that theres no turning back for MM at this point.

But true to 2p2's character, they refuse to just let this die out or admit a mistake.

Ban first, ask questions later.

it may be apples to oranges, but the same principles still apply. DUCY?

of course not. typical response from top dog. keep on digging sir. its gettin pretty deep.

My intent wasn't to state that DN should apologize and 2p2 should only think about apologizing, although I realize that the way I phrased it suggests that (and since you quoted it, I didn't want to go back and ninja edit to clarify).

My basic position is that I think both parties bear some fault for how this played out and it would be best for everyone that both parties swallow their pride, make nice, and come to some sort of agreement.

I don't think a ban was the best way of dealing with this. I also think DN severely overreacted. I'm not alone in saying either of those things.

Not sure about that. Buffet is one of the worlds most famous investors and Negreanu is one of the worlds most famous Poker players.

I think the analogy is fine.

He isnt comparing Buffet with Negreanu but just suggesting an instance of someone who is equally famous in their field.

Each has extreme fame in their respective fields.

I suspect that if you did a worldwide poll on naming the top 5 most famous/recognizable investors in the world, and the top 5 most famous/recognizable poker players in the world, that WB and DN would both make their respective lists. That was the point of the analogy.

But your actions in this matter are clear, and IMO must reflect your level of expertise in these matters. And it is always the right of a business owner to conduct his business any way he so desires.

My post simply provided my opinion, based upon my business experience, for discussion on the forum. Whether it has any meaning to you is really beside the point.

Where can I download the podcast? Can't find it on quadjacks site. Do I need to register?

I think they said it would take about 24h to be available after the live show.

The analogy is not that great.

(a) Buffett respects property rights - Daniel clearly doesnt given his actions and his reactions to 2+2 response
(b) Buffett would not have escalated a minor dispute the way Daniel N - I suspect he would just quietly walk away.
(c) Buffett relative position in popular financial world culture is of a far greater standing than Daniel Negreanu in the poker world.

Some things that are overvalued by various posters itt: 2p2, DN, the seriousness of infractions and bans, the status of TV pros in the larger poker community, analogies in general.

One thing that has so far been undervalued: David Sklansky's sense of humor.

One thing I'm reminded of that I don't think anyone has mentioned: Alan Kessler's ban and his reaction to it.

My conclusion: No matter how many times he gets banned, DN will never become gr8 like viffer.

Very nice post sir, you reminded me of the discussions I had in 2/3 grade

keep up the good work!

I tend to agree

Not anymore. Damage is done IMHO. Thanks for posting when you did Daniel.

/thread

..... Que srsly's DN tempban/never visiting 2+2 again vid.

A better analogy is this

daniel Negreanu likely gets a financial benefit from the sales of hotdogs from a hotdog stand in an esplanade.

DN goes into the adjacent McDonalds which has a large loyal customer base - and begins to hand out flyers about his new hotdog offerings.....the Mcdonald's franchise owner Mason comes out and says whilst you are a great prmoter of commerce in the esplanade - you cannot hand out promotions for your hotdogs.....but hey if you come to me and say pay me I will put one of your flyers in my window.
But for now - I dont want you in my shop for one day but you are welcome to comeback into my store so long as you dont handout commercial advertisements without my permission.

Good luck with your Hotdog business - cya around.

Your intent was good, you wanted a positive resolution to this. I don't dispute your intentions.
My point was your phrasing/handling of it was poor, to say the least. That was why I said you should leave what has become a very sensitive issue to people that are capable of dealing with it sensitively, ie Bobo.
He has posted often on this issue and every post is supremely well crafted, a PR masterclass.
He was the 1st mod to say perhaps a ban wasn't the best approach (if I'm wrong and that was actually you, I apologise), which leaves some wriggle room to possibly get a positive resolution.
When a compromise is needed, if both sides can say 'I messed up' a little, it makes backing down easier for both.
And as for your addressing the 'consider/not consider apologising' point of my post, that was hardly the meat of my argument, was it?
It was obviously your
"escalating the entire thing by making ridiculous statements like MM is off his medication and basically throwing a giant hissy fit."
remarks.
These are phrases that are raising the emotional stakes and undermine your reconciliation attempts.
You're actually doing again in this post albeit in a much lesser way,
"I also think DN severely overreacted."
Why not say, "I also think DN maybe/slightly/possibly overreacted", if you have to use that phrase at all?
You've got 2 massive egos bashing heads here, do you understand how important the language you use is?
If you're just a normal poster, your clumsy comments wouldn't mean a thing but you're a mod of the site that DN has an issue with. If you make him out to be unreasonable, you'll harden his position.
Meh, I'm derailing, let's take this to pm?

Best post of the thread.
(The post showing Daniel's recent activity is a close second.)

daniel i am dissappoint..... the way you decided to handle this shows that you have no class. your course of actions makes me unsubscribe your product..

have a nice day

You seem to be trying to dig up info confirming that Daniel has part ownership. But that is irrelavent at this point. As DN mentioned on QJ's, you say that you want to treat him just like anyone else yet you don't research other members financial interests but you do his. What you knew at the time of the banning is all that matters.

You are also speaking of the fact that the players get a small percentage of the betting as something that you have uncovered. That part of iSeries had been well reported long before Daniel made his Vlog and it is something that DN included in his Vlog. It was nothing that was being hidden whatsoever. The players get a small percentage of the bets. That's been common knowledge for some time. It certainly wasn't something that as you state, "It turns out after questioning he does at least get a cut of the gambling action." If that cut in the action is what you are referring to then it is an incredibly disingenuous thing for you to say. Who did this questioning? If he is getting some other percentage of the bets that we are unaware of you should explain further.

You keep citing the second thread deletion as another example of DN's defying you, even after you've admitted that that deletion had been a mistake on your part. What exactly was DN supposed to have learned from that second infraction when the deletion made absolutely no sense and has since been restored. It seems to me that that deletion did nothing but add to the confusion.

I suspect that part of the reason you acted so hastily in banning DN was that you seemed to have gotten this idea in your head that Daniel was trying to pull one over on you... that you and he were involved in some kind of heads-up match. I really think that you got caught up in the drama that was taking place in your mind and overreacted causing this entire fiasco.

By the way folks, for those of you who are getting a kick out of seeing that Daniel has logged on...he was reading the posts here even while he was banned. He mentioned that on Quadjacks.

Actually, it's like comparing an amoeba to an elephant.

Buffett is pretty big.

I don't think you're derailing.

And I said severely overreacted because I believe his overreaction was severe. He said MM was nuts and off his meds. However I may feel about the ban, this was hardly the appropriate response from a pro of DNs stature, IMO.

That said, I don't believe my opinion, clumsily worded or otherwise, has any more bearing on what DN (or MM) think or are thinking about this situation than any other poster. Less, if either of them think I'm off my meds. Unlike some other mods/posters who have connections to the high stakes community, I have none to speak of.

Not at all. The first metaphor is accurate because an argument can be made that there are users here, solely due to the fact 2+2 has the active input of established pros from the poker community. Likewise i'm sure traffic would rise if investors found out Buffet was writing his views on some biz forum somewhere. I have no doubt traffic jumps when DN mentions a funny thread on 2+2, or a discussion he had over a ruling here, in an interview or blog.
As poker players we should all understand (too well) by now the value a recognisable representative adds to the associated brand.
The desicion was imo short sighted and feels a little reactionary.

Great... Chase away one of the only pros that actually posts here. ****ing morons.

LOL MODS

Getting tired of people acting like he's the only pro posting here. We still have...HIM.

That's why you don't run a poker show. It's exactly the right thing to focus on if you run a poker show. Daniel Negreanu going on the show proves that he's pissed off by being embarrassed. He's going on the show for the community imo.

My read on the situation is that he hates their guts and thinks they are a bunch of nerds who are clueless and lack common sense. He's Daniel Negreanu and they are people who essentially don't matter in the poker world.

You don't ban a top 5 poker pro from a poker forum. It doesn't matter what he does. You just keep deleting his posts if you have to and sending PMs. But if I owned the forum I would let the dude do whatever he wanted to do. Because it's just good for traffic. Traffic is good for business.

So yeah they should cater to the guy unless they hate money. They are lucky that he even chooses to post on here. It's just common sense. Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb.

It's almost like they are trying to lose money. It's baffling.

A mod actually said "nuthuggers gonna nut hug" to me. I say fire and ban that guy. Seriously are you guys this ****ing stupid or what? How can people have this little common sense about what is good for business?

You let your mods mouth off in reference to one of the biggest names in poker who represents one of your biggest potential advertisers on a poker forum? Jesus let's hope Phil Ivey doesn't show up and mention a product by mistake.