Daniel Negreanu talking on QuadJacks about 2p2 ban. (and some complaining about mods) - Page 14 - Poker News

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Daniel Negreanu talking on QuadJacks about 2p2 ban. (and some complaining about mods)

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03-24-2012 , 01:48 PM

#326

Joe Tall

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16,928

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyA

The idea that any poster, much less someone like DN, would actually read the TOS is a bunch of crap. 2+2 has it there so that you can point to it when needed (and for legal reasons), but everyone knows full well that no one ever reads the whole thing.

I'm well aware most do not read the T&C as they are banned often for violating it.

03-24-2012 , 01:58 PM

#327

ihateannieduke

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 286

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tall

I'm well aware most do not read the T&C as they are banned often for violating it.

LOL.
Most don't read the t&c b/c the rules are obvious. 99% of the time posters know they could be banned for doing whatever they are doing but do it anyway.
Ask yourself to name the most typical bannable offense and then ask yourself if most posters realize that is ban worthy. Guarantee everyone knows. Don't act like reading the t&c would keep posters from getting banned so often.

However, DN falls into the other 1% but you guys couldn't treat it any differently. That would take people skills and not robots

03-24-2012 , 01:59 PM

#328

MonkeyPox

undeserving

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,850

The only way this thread would be anymore LOL is if Rapini was the one who banned the attention whore.

03-24-2012 , 02:27 PM

#329

SantaCruz

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 4,161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

I also want to address the benefit we get from Daniel Negreanu posting here. Over the past year, we got approximately 7,000,000 posts. That's a lot. Daniel Negreanu made, by my count, a total of 57 posts. So while I agree that in terms of what's good for our overall traffic, a Negreanu post is worth more than a typical post, in the overall scheme of things, I think he's over estimating his total value to 2+2.

Even if we were to give a Negreanu post a weight of 100 relative to a typical post, it still comes out to 5,700 versus 7,000,000. That's not much.

You need to factor in that over 6,000,000 posts made here are total nonsense. Raw numbers lie. Are you really saying that if someone posted the equivalent of about 15 posts a day (5,700 a year) that that person's posts would be insignificant?

The fact that DN on average posts here over once a week, I feel, shows that he has a significant presense here at 2+2. He only makes one Vlog a week and that obviously gets noticed.

03-24-2012 , 02:38 PM

#330

Brocktoon

Unreada Bill

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 8,674

Quote:

Mason, you are clearly a smart guy but your adamant refusal to admit any wrongdoing is very unhealthy behavior. Do you know how much more respected you would be on here if you manned up and admitted, "Okay, I guess I may not have been thinking clearly since it was 2am and I should have realized it was Daniel Negreanu and factored in his very respectable track record. It was a bit of a knee jerk reaction and I apologize to Daniel."
Why would that be so hard for you?

It would be impossible for him. Have you ever read the AQs vs JJ thread? It provides some insight into MM's stubbornness.

03-24-2012 , 02:58 PM

#331

I_Poke_4_Fun

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 523

lol 99% of mods are such jokes on 2p2, its really sad, they use their "mod power" to get a kick out of life, can guarantee the joke who banned DN bragged bout it to all his friends, i wouldnt even be surprised if he made a post in BVG lolllllllllllll

03-24-2012 , 03:21 PM

#332

I_Poke_4_Fun

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 523

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

I believe you're making assumptions with no foundation to make those assumptions. First, we rely on our moderators to make these kind of decisions. So when a moderator, especially one we know well, contacts me (which by the way is highly unusual since I don't normally get involved in the moderation) and explains to me what is happening, we usually go along with what the moderator recommends because we trust the moderator to be accurate. But in this case I did tell him to reduce the ban from three days to only one.

As for whether Negreanu would be posting a lot of ads if we allowed that, this is something I don't know. I've met Negreanu but hardly know him at all, and have never had any sort of real conversation with him although we did exchange some emails over ten years ago.

But I do know that when people self promote, it's our experience that if we don't stop them most (of them) will continue to do so. Now this doesn't mean that would be the case here, but we don't know that. Perhaps if I knew Negreanu better my conclusion would be the same as yours.

However, from listening to the QuadJacks show, Negreanu claimed that he did not understand our rules were being violated. But our moderator indicated to me that Negreanu had received and read the pm that was sent to him after the first post that was deleted went up, and we assumed that it should be clear to Daniel at that point in time that our rules were being violated. So I assume this is where the disconnect occurred.

Anyway, to finish, I have sent Negreanu a pm with a proposal that I think can bring all of this to a conclusion. So we'll see what happens.

Mason

PS: I want to ad one more comment. In 1987 I self-published our first book, and at that time, we were a tiny company. Today, approximately 25 years later, we have grown into a very successful publishing company as well as a successful Internet company, and during all these years, I have had to work with a lot of people. This includes 20 different authors, employees and independent contractors involved directly with 2+2, lots of people who represent other businesses that we deal with -- we've been with the same printer for 19 years and have done a huge amount of printing with them, plus they now handle our digital books as well, we've had the same account for many years, the same attorney since 1987, and so on. So I suspect that if my people skills were as bad as you proclaim, it's unlikely that all of this would have happened, or else I just got incredibly lucky.

NO WAYYY!!! YOU REDUCED IT!?!?!? WOW! are u sure thats not against the rules? you might be banned, id be super careful, you should get a 2p2 police badge-might make you feel better about yourself

03-24-2012 , 03:26 PM

#333

LOL POT-ODDS

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,064

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Poke_4_Fun

so much fail...

03-24-2012 , 03:44 PM

#334

XerXoX

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synergistic Explosions

Daniel is nothing but class and heart. I support him 100% and would hate to see this site lose such a valuable and good person. Someone from this site should get in touch with him and clear things up if at all possible. He did me a huge favor just last week and he doesn't even know who I am. That's the kind of person he is. All heart.

03-24-2012 , 04:03 PM

#335

sajeffe

banned

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 5,058

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Poke_4_Fun

NO WAYYY!!! YOU REDUCED IT!?!?!? WOW! are u sure thats not against the rules? you might be banned, id be super careful, you should get a 2p2 police badge-might make you feel better about yourself

^^^ Too many 11 year-olds itt.

03-24-2012 , 04:10 PM

#336

XerXoX

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 144

Ban DN = -EV

Best wishes,
XerXoX

03-24-2012 , 04:18 PM

#337

Spad3s

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 106

Ive been a member of a few online forums, relating to many different areas. But I have never come across one like 2plus2.

Fact is this is not an isolated incident on 2plus2, its only highlighted because of Daniel Negreanu. For some time 2plus2 has not been a welcoming or friendly place and has been overmoderated by some unreasonable, bitter mods who are always looking for any excuse to give someone a "slap on the wrists".
I only wish there was another decent poker forum out there.

03-24-2012 , 04:22 PM

#338

Pay The Line

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 391

What is also troubling about this is that I had thought that with the very large membership of 2+2, state of the art information would find its way to 2+2 faster than other forums. Now with this censorship along with gray areas in policy, I find it stifling for new information to get on 2+2 as fast as it possibly could and this for me, diminishes the overall value of 2+2. Hope you guys figure it out.

03-24-2012 , 04:28 PM

#339

Jsmith16

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 166

None of this discussion is even relevant if DN wasn't such a stubborn baby about anything that he doesn't agree with. Basically the entire argument against 2+2 is based around them not recognizing that DN needs coddling. It's sad.

I like DN all things considered, but this is so stupid.

03-24-2012 , 04:34 PM

#340

KingBBinLV

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,883

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigglegirl

Just cos you have a successful company doesn't mean you automatically have good people skills. It normally means you have a good product.

It's a widely held belief that you don't have good people skills. There is a thread in NVG titled 'Why is Mason Malmuth so hated in the poker industry?'
And in fact in this very post where you claim to have those good people skills you exhibit poor people skills.
It is a clear example of poor people skills to refer to DN repeatedly as 'Negreanu'. Perhaps say 'Daniel' or even DN. They are both shorter and more polite. You do realise it's not good people skills to refer to people by their surname, right? Particularly at a time when you are trying to reach out to them.

Wow!! This was my exact thought when reading MM's posts!

IMO Very very bad people skills to repeatedly call him Negreanu and not Daniel or DN.

Every post that I read from Mason on this topic makes me imagine a shovel on a beach digging a hole.

The post from MM a few comments up where he actually puts a value on Daniels posts is the real kicker!

Are you for real MM? IMO you should just stop posting on this subject already, you're not making yourself look any better.

EDIT: Just read MM's apology in the other thread, I now just imagined a laid down shovel and a filled in hole lol.

I think it goes a long way to resolving this, thanks for posting the apology MM.

Last edited by KingBBinLV; 03-24-2012 at 04:49 PM.

03-24-2012 , 04:39 PM

#341

IamPro

one time Plz???

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,652

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingBBinLV

Wow!! This was my exact thought when reading MM's posts!

Very very bad people skills to repeatedly call him Negreanu and not Daniel or DN.

Every post that I read from Mason on this topic makes me imagine a shovel on a beach digging a hole.

The post from MM a few comments up where he actually puts a value on Daniels posts is the real kicker!

Are you for real MM? Just stop posting on this subject already, you're not making yourself look any better.

this, and i see it more like quicksand

now someone should bump that "why is MM hated so much in the poker industry" thread

03-24-2012 , 05:23 PM

#342

hellboy2325

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

WB would never post on a site in the manner that you describe.

Creating a hypothetical that would never happen with parameters that support your position may be okay with you, but it's meaningless to us.

Also, while Negreanu may be an important person in poker, something we do not dispute, comparing him to Warren Buffet is like comparing apples to oranges.

MM

2.

You clearly don't get his point.

Whether or not Warren Buffet would post on a site like that is irrelevant, but the point is that Daniel Negreanu is to poker players (a hero, someone they envy and respect, someone they would love to talk to and be interested in almost anything he has to say) as Warren Buffet is to any financial investor.

So to treat either of them in the disgusting unprofessional manner that has been done on this site is not only bad business acumen but also blatantly stupid.

03-24-2012 , 05:26 PM

#343

tuccotrading

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,373

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwar

This was clearly a bad decision. The impact should have been obvious before making the banning decision, why not just delete the offending posts and ask mods to delete until the message gets through in a few days.

I think deleting posts before trying to communicate with the poster would be a poor way to handle "most" of these situations the first time they arise. Many sincere posters would be confused or offended by this.

There is an IM feature on 2plus2.

I'm commenting on "process", and this well meant suggestion, not on a specific situation.

Last edited by tuccotrading; 03-24-2012 at 05:47 PM.

03-24-2012 , 06:27 PM

#344

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

Lol, this is ridiculous logic and a ridiculous metric.

03-24-2012 , 06:32 PM

#345

Todd Terry

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16,301

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwar

This was clearly a bad decision. The impact should have been obvious before making the banning decision, why not just delete the offending posts and ask mods to delete until the message gets through in a few days. I'm not going to argue this issue itself is massively important relative to the scale of 2p2 but IMO the advertising aspect of the business is beholden to the 2p2 community. I think the community should come first and clearly this decision was at the expense of the community. Make this decision a few more times (and this certainly isn't the first time it has come up) and it really might be a problem and that would be a shame. Look what happened to Digg:

http://www.michikono.com/2007/05/01/...andal-summary/

One of the most disappointing things about this fiasco is the endless procession of mods who have jumped in to defend 2p2's actions. Thanks for speaking out.

03-24-2012 , 06:53 PM

#346

SantaCruz

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 4,161

Let me clarify this whole calling DN by Negreanu thing. There is no disrespect in calling him Negreanu. It is standard journalistic procedure to call people by their last names. This is actually considered a sign of respect, not disrespect. The reasoning behind this is that it is considered presumptious and a bit rude to refer to someone you don't personally know by their first name. I frequently refer to DN as Negreanu also, but certainly not out of any sense of disrespect.

03-24-2012 , 07:05 PM

#347

Barry Champlain

grinder

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 692

"I was a bad boy so they put me in the corner? It's just a lil much"

Na D YOU are a little much. I'm gonna refrain from hating more but yea...No U!

03-24-2012 , 11:28 PM

#348

Birdseye

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 210

Mason/2+2

Sucks that Daniel will post here less, if at all. Seems really unnecessary and it sucks DN won't be around. It was pretty cool that he posted here at all!!!

03-24-2012 , 11:43 PM

#349

Blizzuff

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,713

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

PS: I want to ad one more comment. In 1987 I self-published our first book, and at that time, we were a tiny company. Today, approximately 25 years later, we have grown into a very successful publishing company as well as a successful Internet company, and during all these years, I have had to work with a lot of people. This includes 20 different authors, employees and independent contractors involved directly with 2+2, lots of people who represent other businesses that we deal with -- we've been with the same printer for 19 years and have done a huge amount of printing with them, plus they now handle our digital books as well, we've had the same account for many years, the same attorney since 1987, and so on. So I suspect that if my people skills were as bad as you proclaim, it's unlikely that all of this would have happened, or else I just got incredibly lucky.

Really? Having a good business sense and having good people skills are two completely different things. A good (business) idea and good work ethic can go a long way to overcome lousy people skills. Do you really think your attorney sticks around because you're a "great guy"? Maybe, but maybe the fact that he just got paid 5 figures to slap around Dutch Boyd has something to do with it.

The number of successful/wealthy people who are known as "pricks" by their co-workers/business partners is so large that it's almost cliche. People can and will put up with a whole lot from someone if that person consistently brings them business, or pays their paycheck.

As far as this whole situation is concerned, it does seem like you've taken the correct steps to rectify this. If Daniel thinks it makes any sense to not put this behind him and move on (and continue to contribute here), he's crazy and will lose the respect of a lot of people, regardless of how people feel about the moderation around here, or the site's owners.

03-25-2012 , 08:32 AM

#350

DiggertheDog

Pan Troglodytes

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 57,791

I am astonished so many - otherwise reasonable posters - cannot see that Daniel cannot effectively be a squatter on private property. And whats worse is that he is able to pay for advertising space and chooses not to.

This celebrity live by a different ethos being pushed is quite offensive really.

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