I love the drama!

It's all silly though

That is skype on wi-fi does it all the time.

Hi 2DMB2LIV:

Your argument is not being presented correctly. Everyone here needs to understand that at 2+2 we believe in capitalism and free markets, and unlike poker, as the great Milton Friedman once pointed out, capitalism and free markets is not a zero sum game.

Let me give an example. Suppose you go to a store and buy a product. As a purchaser, your EV is positive since you now have something that is useful and improves your way of life. But the same is true for the seller since he makes a profit on your purchase. So when the transaction is finished, it's a +EV play for both parties. Notice that in poker it's usually a +EV play for one of the parties, and a -EV play for everyone else.

Now let's go on to www.twoplustwo.com. Usually, when someone posts here, we at the business side of 2+2 gain since it increases our traffic, adds to our forum content, and so on. So our EV is positive. However, it should also be positive for the poster since they (hopefully) have a fun experience, perhaps learn worthwhile things from responses, get exposure to other posters and readers, and so on. The result of this is that it becomes a +EV play for both parties, and only presenting the idea that our actions produce -EV for only 2+2 is not accurate.

The next idea which I've yet to see in any of the posts, and perhaps it's there somewhere but missed by me, is the idea that proper play is to pick the strategy which produces the highest EV, and this play does not necessarily produce +EV. As poker players we should all know this because when we fold, even if it is our best possible result, it does not produce +EV.

So in this case, it was immediately clear to me that there were three strategic paths we could go down. They were:

1. Not to do anything.

2. Delete all posts that violate our terms and conditions but otherwise do nothing else.

3. Delete the first post (which I believe was the start of a new thread -- the moderator handled this before I became aware that anything had happened), send a warning pm with instructions of how to put this type of information on 2+2, and then to take stronger action on the next offense. (This by the way is our standard procedure in these type of situations).

So the question should be, which of these paths has the best EV, even though it might be negative, for 2+2?

Now some of you may object to the above because you will claim that there are perhaps other paths, such as giving Negreanu a call, and going from there. And perhaps that's true. But I have already addressed this one idea in a previous post.

Anyway, to finish, we do hope that Negreanu continues to post here in a proper manner. If he does, it should be +EV for both Daniel and 2+2.

Also, and this is important, we do sometimes allow posters to put up posts which some might consider advertising. One good example is Rich Muny, aka TheEngineer and the PPA. Everything on 2+2 that you see related to the PPA and Rich's Daily Action Plans that look like ads (and are ads) are allowed at no cost to the advertising party.

Another person with similar privileges is Matt Savage. We felt that good tournament information is something that many 2+2er's would be interested in.

But in both of these cases, discussion took place ahead of time and we at 2+2 agreed that this was the right approach. We're also willing to have this sort of discussion with anyone else if they feel they have something to offer that is highly beneficial to the community here and/or poker in general.

Now this brings us to Iseries. We at 2+2 know very little about it, and were not contacted ahead of time concerning promoting it. But since it does appear to be a for profit commercial operation, and there is nothing wrong with that (and 2+2 is also a for profit commercial operation), it's highly unlikely that we would allow any sort of free direct promotion by those directly involved it it.

However, if others on www.twoplustwo.com want to talk about it, they are certainly welcome to do so, and then if those directly involved want to come into the discussion and answer any questions which our posters may have, that is also within our rules.

Best wishes,
Mason

No. It would not be the right business call.

Best wishes,
mason

Thanks for putting a closing/notation on the end of your post. It would be great if we could get screennames to show up on the left which would eliminate the need for signing posts. ANobleGent would appreciate it, for sure.

Mason, DN called out 2p2 mods for their refusal to ever admit wrong doing.
Do you think this was handled poorly on 2p2's part in any way?

News headlines today

DN banned for one day on two plus two

And in other news civil war in Mali, massacres in France etc etc..

Back to the big story of today DN says he is butt hurt by his ban blah blah...

Who cares?

Just finished the podcast and midway through I experienced a similar line of thinking as yours.

It seemed really petty after the issue was debated.

Be that as it may, I have now become a big DN fan. It is cool to hear someone get Negreanu'd and I can tell he's a really intelligent dude during his debates.
Cliffs: More DN, less Mods

It's enough to make you wonder how Erik Ryland would have been treated in the same spot.

"in a proper manner"

Are you enjoying being so smug about it?

You do realize that your mods reinstated two of his posts right? So how can the ban be justified when they admitted those posts were part of the decision to ban him?

He posts under his real name and he's famous. You're potentially harming his reputation. Do you care if he sues you?

Mason:

Poker isn't all math; it has a lot to do with having a good understanding of your fellow poker players at the table. Not doing so can turn +EV into -EV. I think that DN's motives were misread causing 2+2 to play the hand a little too fast.

Ha.

Humble brag - Ryland once hit me up on AIM to discuss....something....and he used the term "CiB" and of course I respond "What's CiB?" and of course he berates me for not knowing min-raise theory and blocks me before I had a chance to respond.

Daniel can relate.

Most often I am proud of DN as a Canadian. In this case, he is embarrassing. Stop being a wimp, man up and accept your minor and slightly inconvenient, inconsequential ban.

Not everything is a glove dropping situation.
Christ, this is nothng like what happended to Daniel Sedin the other night... so get over it.

People should give more value to the moderated content on these forums. I doubt DN would ever end up posting here without the work the mods put into 2p2. Just as im sure most readers would vanish without it. So he really should have more patience and understanding that infractions and bans is just the way of communicating here. If he gets a one day ban as a side effect of something that keeps 2p2 fairly readable and free of endless spam, id say its worth it. For him and anyone else who enjoys the forums.

All the talk about how 2p2 benefits from DN and should be grateful and whatnot forgets that DN has found his way here on his own. Doubt it was a favor to anyone, and I really doubt he's doing it just from the kindness of his heart. The man makes money promoting a pokersite and things poker related. When he adds his valuable content to a forum that just happens to have a good reach to the people in the market for the stuff he sells, I'd say it's more than a happy accident. And that doesn't mean it can't be valuable content, just that he has good reason for doing it.

ProfessionalPoker comes off pretty well, but I think he shows how out of touch the mods are in that they think a temp ban is no big deal and is just a way to get people's attention. Maybe it is for NVG regs, but I can see how for many posters its going to be a slap in the face to be told you can't post on the site for a day.

Also, PP's argument that since he wasn't in DN's head, he couldn't know if DN was about to go mass spammer, and post a link to his VBlog is every tons of threads is laughably weak. DN is absolutely right that this was a horrible read by PP.