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Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT*

04-25-2014 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12bigworm81
Did you write this drunk?

Borgata will want him to walk with violation. The less punitive it is for him makes it a smaller incident in the eyes of the law in any civil action against them.
The flip side is that they'll want a stiff punishment to deter future attempts. The best thing that can happen to poker and poker venues in general is for Lusardi to get the book thrown at him. It's in the best interest of AC as a whole, as well. I think it's ultimately in the Borgata's best interest, especially if they don't have to worry about civil action, because...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingDan
Someone at the WPT Championship sat down ~1 hour after registration closed. He said he was the chipleader from the $500 event, and getting bought in was his compensation. This didn't cost the Borgata anything, since the event was going to overlay.
They've found a way to split the 27 even further. Brilliant business strategy. DGE split the player pool for them (whether that was a totally independent DGE decision or not, the fact of the matter is it was Borgata-friendly)... Not enough bustouts without refunds to sue, only the 27.. Four of which got a +EV solution based on ICM, a couple of which are in an area where they lost a smaller amount of equity but it's not worth suing over due to the fees, risk, etc. So that left approximately 20 people who might sue, spearheaded by the big stacks. Most likely at least 3-5 of these people wouldn't have wanted to mess with it anyway, and would just take the 19K and go quietly. So you're down to like 15.

Quietly pay the few biggest stacks about $15,000, maybe a few other perks, make them sign a NDA and waive any right to bring any litigation, and now you've chopped the legs out from under the remaining 10-12 or so. They'd have to explain to a court why the top five and bottom five don't care, nor do a handful of people in a similar situation, but they do.

As a semi-pro poker player at this point, I feel deeply for the 27, especially the chip leaders, but I honestly think the only things we can hope for as a community at this point are:

A) A harsh sentence on Lusardi to deter future cheating.

B) Some sort of statement from the TDA, WSOP and WPT on how this type of situation would be handled in the future to attempt to eliminate situations in which big stacks are disincentivized to report cheating. I had hoped the Borgata would do something like this for all of its events, but obviously we would have heard something by now. I think the only hope is that the TDA and/or WSOP take the lead, which would probably cause Borgata to adopt the rule/directive.

Here's a crack at something that I think would be realistic:
Upon reasonable suspicion of a fake chip being brought into a tournament, the TD will pause the tournament for 30 minutes to examine the chip and verify. During this time, dealers will count down all stacks and compare the chips in play to the proper number. If there are more than X or X% fake chips in play, and it is a multi-day event or the buyin is greater than $500, the tournament will be frozen for 24 hours for investigation, after which point all identified cheats will be removed from play and charges will be pressed. Fake chips in their stacks will be removed, while fake chips in innocent players stacks will be replaced with real chips from the cheaters stacks. After this point, the remaining stacks will be blinded off as the tournament resumes and plays to its completion. Anyone who was busted by, or lost greater than half a starting stack of chips to the cheater, will be eligible for a refund out of the vig money.

If it is a single day, small buyin event that is not in the money or on the bubble (define as you wish, maybe within 10% of the size of the field of busting), after the 30 minute delay to examine the chips, if there are greater than X% fake chips in play, all players will leave their name and current mailing address to receive a full refund via check after 1 week. During this week an investigation will be carried out, and the cheater(s) will not receive a refund and will be charged with all relevant crimes. All vig will also be dispersed to the players in the top 10% of the field as a chip chop. If it is in the money, the tournament will be played to its completion, but the money will be held for 1 week to investigate. After this time, payouts will be made to all deemed innocent. Anyone who cheated will not receive any money, will be prosecuted, and their money plus the vig will be dispersed as a partial refund to all players who busted out.

C) In conjunction with both A & B, some sort of cross-casino agreement that bans anyone caught cheating a tournament in the future from all casino poker. This is a pipe dream, but it shouldn't be.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-25-2014 , 03:48 PM
Yeah, another conquer and divide tactic.

But I'm really not concerned about precedents and actions going further. This is a once a decade thing. I'm just annoyed as a spectator that the villain is winning and no fight is being launched. I don't like the ending of this movie.

Come on Final 2-22, get on out there and make them pay!

Last edited by pipes; 04-25-2014 at 03:54 PM.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-25-2014 , 03:50 PM
I wonder if the chip leader had to sign something before he got his stub stack and the chance to see if he had another horseshoe up his ass.

But the Borgata introduced a foreign element that had no business being there and changed the outcome of this event.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-25-2014 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipes
I wonder if the chip leader had to sign something before he got his stub stack and the chance to see if he had another horseshoe up his ass.

But the Borgata introduced a foreign element that had no business being there and changed the outcome of this event.
Borgata did not introduce anything.

The gaming commission wrote in their findings Lusardi was solely responsible. Than all the money was refunded going to be tough to fight that in court.

Obviously, if the final 27 could find someone to take the case on a contigency basis than maybe they could proceed.

Also, wondering if you are out the 19K if you decide to sue...I honestly don't think they have a great case so I'd probably just take the 19k.

Just wondering though why i have not received my check yet. Going to have to call them to find out.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-25-2014 , 05:46 PM
I'd like to see if it could be confirmed. I'd think the Borg sneaking in someone after a tournament's official registration closing is detrimental to the EV of the other players if an overlay was in place. Probably against state gaming regs, too, if true.

The Borgata is just having one hell of a fine 2014, stumbling from one ham-handed episode to the next.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-25-2014 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyAggassi
Borgata did not introduce anything.

The gaming commission wrote in their findings Lusardi was solely responsible. Than all the money was refunded going to be tough to fight that in court.

Obviously, if the final 27 could find someone to take the case on a contigency basis than maybe they could proceed.

Also, wondering if you are out the 19K if you decide to sue...I honestly don't think they have a great case so I'd probably just take the 19k.

Just wondering though why i have not received my check yet. Going to have to call them to find out.
I was talking about the act of throwing this guy into the WPT Championship
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-25-2014 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by haley44
I'd like to see if it could be confirmed. I'd think the Borg sneaking in someone after a tournament's official registration closing is detrimental to the EV of the other players if an overlay was in place. Probably against state gaming regs, too, if true.

The Borgata is just having one hell of a fine 2014, stumbling from one ham-handed episode to the next.
If this action of putting in a free player after registration closed in the WPT. Championship can be confirmed, i will spread the word on twitter.

" It just keeps getting worse and worse doesn't it? "
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-26-2014 , 02:58 AM
lol at the person who said lusardi will get 25 years. was that a joke?
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-26-2014 , 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingDan
Someone at the WPT Championship sat down ~1 hour after registration closed. He said he was the chipleader from the $500 event, and getting bought in was his compensation. This didn't cost the Borgata anything, since the event was going to overlay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipes
Yeah, another conquer and divide tactic.

But I'm really not concerned about precedents and actions going further. This is a once a decade thing. I'm just annoyed as a spectator that the villain is winning and no fight is being launched. I don't like the ending of this movie.

Come on Final 2-22, get on out there and make them pay!
I don't want to report something that I do not know to be 100% true because what I heard has me pretty enraged and, in my estimation, makes several people look pretty horrible but I can say that there appears to be no chance whatsoever for collective legal action by the final 27.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-26-2014 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pninwin
I don't want to report something that I do not know to be 100% true because what I heard has me pretty enraged and, in my estimation, makes several people look pretty horrible but I can say that there appears to be no chance whatsoever for collective legal action by the final 27.
Has anyone contacted the PPA? Longshot, but would be great if that organization had a lawyer associated with it that would take the case on a contingency.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-26-2014 , 12:59 PM
I'm sure, in a year, the PPA will write a letter...
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-26-2014 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBlow
I'm sure, in a year, the PPA will write a letter...
And the letter will be the diea of doing a formal letter to their members asking if the DGE or Borgata should have an official stance taken against them by the PPA for what happened.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-26-2014 , 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefsfan17
lol at the person who said lusardi will get 25 years. was that a joke?
It's the same guy who thought a fair solution would be to pay everyone in the final 27 first place money, along with a slew of other loltastic comments throughout this thread. Not sure whether he's serious or trolling.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-26-2014 , 11:08 PM
He thinks everything is a movie or tv show, he predicted millions in fines earlier.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-26-2014 , 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarized Mike
Some points and an observation.

1. A result of this whole debacle maybe should be that no prizes be released until a tournament is completed. Without the cash payouts that were already paid in this case, this whole settlement may have been very different. d.
You have to be kidding? No one wants to wait days for a min cash.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-27-2014 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealsaltydog
You have to be kidding? No one wants to wait days for a min cash.
I guess you would rather wait 90+ days to have your prize pool split among the Bust Outs!!
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-27-2014 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishman11
I guess you would rather wait 90+ days to have your prize pool split among the Bust Outs!!
No, I would rather get my money immediately after busting out like it is now. No reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater by making ridiculous changes.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-27-2014 , 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frommagio
It's the same guy who thought a fair solution would be to pay everyone in the final 27 first place money, along with a slew of other loltastic comments throughout this thread. Not sure whether he's serious or trolling.
Good grief, I agree from. Whoever made loltastic comments like that is definitely playing minus a full deck. (His elevator probably doesn't go all the way to the top floor either ...) About the only redeeming quality that ****** has is that he writes well - and has a smoking hot girlfriend. Other than that, he's a loser. BTW, who are we talking about?
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-28-2014 , 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan C. Lawhon
Good grief, I agree from. Whoever made loltastic comments like that is definitely playing minus a full deck. (His elevator probably doesn't go all the way to the top floor either ...) About the only redeeming quality that ****** has is that he writes well - and has a smoking hot girlfriend. Other than that, he's a loser. BTW, who are we talking about?
Gonna need pics
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-28-2014 , 06:06 AM
Ya, Allan please post pictures of your hot girlfriend (just to prove the haters wrong.)

And allan, alot of us think your are a huge loser so prove us wrong.

and to add an internet phony.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-28-2014 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL
Probation plus time served awaiting trial plus less than a year on the poker crimes. I actually think less, but tons of people snap take the over, even here.
sounds about right, I said 18 mos. all along. 25 years? bahahahaha
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-29-2014 , 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingDan
Someone at the WPT Championship sat down ~1 hour after registration closed. He said he was the chipleader from the $500 event, and getting bought in was his compensation. This didn't cost the Borgata anything, since the event was going to overlay.
this info really needs its own thread, would love to know if it's true
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-29-2014 , 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingDan
Someone at the WPT Championship sat down ~1 hour after registration closed. He said he was the chipleader from the $500 event, and getting bought in was his compensation. This didn't cost the Borgata anything, since the event was going to overlay.
Yes it is not good for the group of 27 collectively . But for Borgata what do you expect ?. That is the best opportunity for borgata after all this fiasco.

IMO if any one of remaining 26 player approaches to borgata for that small favor , they will be more then happy make that extra sweet deal to make easy for them.

And I may suggest that if you do get any extra deal over NJDGE award that is the best you are going to get instead of going to litigation.

Last edited by riverph7; 04-29-2014 at 08:25 AM.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-29-2014 , 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pninwin
this info really needs its own thread, would love to know if it's true
So what if its true? There will need to be some type of consideration (payment from the Borgata) in exchange for a release of claims by any of the 27 pressing for compensation above the dge ruling. Any entry into an event could be part of that agreement.

The opinion above about the best you will do is small minded and uneducated. Seek real advice.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
04-29-2014 , 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
So what if its true? There will need to be some type of consideration (payment from the Borgata) in exchange for a release of claims by any of the 27 pressing for compensation above the dge ruling. Any entry into an event could be part of that agreement.

The opinion above about the best you will do is small minded and uneducated. Seek real advice.
I don't think it was that formal. I'm not sure where the chipleader lives. Maybe he was at the Borg begging for scraps or maybe someone at the Borg called him and offered to sneak him into the WPT Championship once they knew for sure it was an overlay and thus free to them.

Free to them, but an equity hit to all paying players of course. What a bunch of snakes imo
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote

      
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