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Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT*

03-09-2014 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pninwin
let's all hope we actually get the chance to have an animated discussion on whether the chip chop was fair...obviously can only happen if DGE makes a bloody decision

not sure if playing it out is even being considered by the people in charge but the first day of the spring open seems like the only logical time to do it. every player would make it there. would suck for me to drive 3 and a half hours to get knocked out on hand number one but would suck a lot less than sitting around for 18 more months hoping to get a check

regarding the chop, will make no effort to hide the fact that I have an incentive to try to argue for something other than a straight ICM chop. even as a shorty i will say the guys with 80bb obviously need to get more than the guy with 8bb. i've got 16bb and i still like the idea (because it is good for me) to split half the pool evenly and half by chip count. the big stack would still get about 102K and the short stack about 32K i believe. not saying it would be the most fair but i don't think this could be described as unfair. if we players were actually sitting at the table negotiating i would be fighting for 40K to forgo the opportunity for 372K and (of course) to avoid the possibility of only getting 8K. this happens to be nearly the exact amount i would get if we chopped half the pool equally and half by chip count.
I would describe your proposal as blatantly unfair. That extra equity you're claiming for yourself is coming directly from others who have more chips than you. How would you feel about others who have already busted out asking for a hefty piece of equity from you? It's the same thing.

One of the most interesting things about this tournament is the human behavior we've observed in the aftermath. Everyone seems to have an argument for an award far out of proportion to what is deserved.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frommagio
I would describe your proposal as blatantly unfair. That extra equity you're claiming for yourself is coming directly from others who have more chips than you. How would you feel about others who have already busted out asking for a hefty piece of equity from you? It's the same thing.

One of the most interesting things about this tournament is the human behavior we've observed in the aftermath. Everyone seems to have an argument for an award far out of proportion to what is deserved.
ummm,isn't fighting for more equity what happens when people are negotiating a chip chop? not sure if that is a sign of a pathological personality. i openly expressed my self-interested argument, but i wouldn't be out of bounds if this were a voluntary chip chop to fight for 3% of prize pool rather than 2%. "blatantly unfair" is a bit hyperbolic
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pninwin
ummm,isn't fighting for more equity what happens when people are negotiating a chip chop? not sure if that is a sign of a pathological personality. i openly expressed my self-interested argument, but i wouldn't be out of bounds if this were a voluntary chip chop to fight for 3% of prize pool rather than 2%. "blatantly unfair" is a bit hyperbolic
as I said before, final 27 like you and others took the worst beat of all on this.

reality is that this is a zero sum game. By definition no matter what the ultimate decision is, some are going to feel they didn't get their "fair" share.

A dollar cannot be split into more than 100 pennies.

Still confused why there haven't been more arrests. Hard to believe Lusardi introduced all those chips himself. Also given my perception of his moral character, hard to believe he wouldn't have flipped on the others to get a better deal for himself.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneof27
Everyone has to make choices in life...a lot of what ifs...what if that happen while you were playing originally...you have to make the choice for yourself...by the way cf410 are you still in the tourney?...if not we don't care about your opinion since this really has no effect on you
And the opinions posted on here by anyone claiming to be one of the final 27 carries no added weight with me unless you can prove that you're not an accomplice to Lusardi. It also carries little weight due to opinions being colored by where your stack is currently. Knowing that playing it out at this point is not going to happen in any fair manner, its just a matter of figuring out what the best chop is for you and fighting for that to happen.

Your primary motivation is not 'What's the best thing as a rule going forward' your motivation is 'How can I maximize my payout today'.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pninwin
not sure if playing it out is even being considered by the people in charge but the first day of the spring open seems like the only logical time to do it. every player would make it there. would suck for me to drive 3 and a half hours to get knocked out on hand number one but would suck a lot less than sitting around for 18 more months hoping to get a check
The first day of the spring tournament is not a logical day to do it. What if some of the final 27 were planning to play other events that day? What if they were not planning to show for the tournament at all due to other commitments? What if they refuse to play at another Borgata event after what was done to them last time?
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou
as I said before, final 27 like you and others took the worst beat of all on this.

reality is that this is a zero sum game. By definition no matter what the ultimate decision is, some are going to feel they didn't get their "fair" share.

A dollar cannot be split into more than 100 pennies.

Still confused why there haven't been more arrests. Hard to believe Lusardi introduced all those chips himself. Also given my perception of his moral character, hard to believe he wouldn't have flipped on the others to get a better deal for himself.
yeah, wouldn't rule out further arrests but god i hope the DGE is not still trying to sweat Lusardi, scour for evidence, and figure who else was in on it. i'd like to think their investigation is over and they are now just ironing out the details of the ruling (how is prize pool chopped? does everyone get their buy ins back? does the borgata pay a fine? are new security measures/regulations necessary for future events? etc, etc) if they haven't yet moved past the investigation then an actual decision could be months away
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 10:52 AM
As someone who was at the Borg, fired two bullets in this MTT, & roomed w the guy who essentially broke this wide open (@7thecho), I must say that the plethora of illogical talk itt puts me on life tilt. I've been having issues lately... Dealing w the fact that so many things in life are just ridiculously unfair and set up so wrong. This thread isn't helping.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pninwin
yeah, wouldn't rule out further arrests but god i hope the DGE is not still trying to sweat Lusardi, scour for evidence, and figure who else was in on it. i'd like to think their investigation is over and they are now just ironing out the details of the ruling (how is prize pool chopped? does everyone get their buy ins back? does the borgata pay a fine? are new security measures/regulations necessary for future events? etc, etc) if they haven't yet moved past the investigation then an actual decision could be months away
Today will be the 80th waterboarding session for Lusardi
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donniccolo
As someone who was at the Borg, fired two bullets in this MTT, & roomed w the guy who essentially broke this wide open (@7thecho), I must say that the plethora of illogical talk itt puts me on life tilt. I've been having issues lately... Dealing w the fact that so many things in life are just ridiculously unfair and set up so wrong. This thread isn't helping.
Dont let the tolls on here bother you-and there are plenty on this site. Put them on your ignore list and smoke a blunt...life is good
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donniccolo
Dealing w the fact that so many things in life are just ridiculously unfair and set up so wrong.
Yes. It can require a major re-adjustment.

It would have been easier if we had just been told, from an early age, "Life is not always fair".
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 12:51 PM
ICM would be the only fair thing to the remaining 27 and potentially the only payout where the remaining players won't sue Borgata
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:16 PM
Was also gonna say ICM, don't see another fair way it can be done
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureWSOPchamp
ICM would be the only fair thing to the remaining 27 and potentially the only payout where the remaining players won't sue Borgata
They get sued regardless of which way they do it...never gonna make everyone happy
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipes
Today will be the 80th water boarding session for Lusardi
That may be right or wrong statement.

But we know remaining 27 are subject to 24/7 water boarding session !
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
yes because i don't agree with your asinine posts i work for the borgata- great logic.

i don't know what's funnier- you saying everyone had to have played great poker to get where they are or that you actually think everyone should just get the same amount of money regardless of stack. way to too your own horn for surviving a donkament as though that demonstrates any skill whatsoever.

yea i realize someone with one blind left could hypothetically end up winning the tournament- which icm accounts for.

how is it remotely fair to tell a guy with a ton of chips he gets just as much as someone who barely held on and is down to next to nothing?


the bottom line is you want 53k for everyone because that is way more than your equity in the tournament.
i'm not in the tournament and i'm not a scumbag like you so i can actually be objective.

it's actually comical how inconsistent your logic is.you would have played differently if you knew the tournament would stop when it did- fine that's believable. but then you're outraged at the notion that people who were knocked out late would have also? nice try. if the 28th guy knew everyone if by not getting knocked out he would get 53k instead of 28th place money he would have played way differently as would everyone else.

but you're completely fos and only care about yourself so they dont matter.
just have an even chop bc that benefits you afterall in fairy tale land everyone left had an equal shot of winning.
Show me where I ever recommend an even chop...I have just shy of chip avg..so any way it is chopped I get about 50,000. I have only said the fairest way would be to play it out...with any kind of chop there will be people that lose...I do believe that all of people who a commenting on the way this should be resolved would have a different opinion it they were on of the 27
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneof27
Are you one the 27? I am pretty sure if you were and you the short stack you would not be suggesting an ICM when you have a chance at 372,000...and the big stack will not want a even chop...must play it out to fair to all...if they don't they can prepare for a few more lawsuits
One of the inevitable "changes" that will be coming to tournament poker, especially large-field MTTs, will be a new paragraph of boilerplate legalese embedded somewhere within the signup receipt when you pay your buy-in and entry fee. It will state something to the effect of: "In the event that this tournament is cancelled for any reason by order of the DGE, player agrees to comply with and accept the binding decision/resolution as handed down by the regulator. Player also agrees to waive any right to pursue a damage claim in lieu of the regulator's decision."
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
yes because i don't agree with your asinine posts i work for the borgata- great logic.
No, it is your name Borg23
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frommagio
Maybe because others have a lot more chips, and a proportionately greater chance to win? You'd be singing quite a different tune as the chip leader, wouldn't you? At least the ICM chop is an attempt to be fair.

How would you feel about taking the entire prize pool, and instead of paying prizes, using it to give equal refunds to everyone that played? I bet you don't like that idea very much.

Think about it. Your argument is just as self-serving as these day 1A/1C bustouts who are looking for undeserved fee money.
the icm is a neutral fair way and 0f course the chip leader deserves more equity. BUT the fairest way would be to play it out, than no one could complain about what they end up with in the end. of course the out of staters might not like having to come back but if the borg threw in a sweetner than it could work out.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdadio48
the icm is a neutral fair way and 0f course the chip leader deserves more equity. BUT the fairest way would be to play it out, than no one could complain about what they end up with in the end. of course the out of staters might not like having to come back but if the borg threw in a sweetner than it could work out.
I am one of the out of staters...I will make the 4 hour drive to play it out.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneof27
No, it is your name Borg23
So if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and his name is Donald Duck, is he a duck? j/k
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneof27
They get sued regardless of which way they do it...never gonna make everyone happy
unless they let us play it out. having alot of sleepless nights? i dont find myself passing out until around 3am everyday... this is sick!!
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgelooker1
So if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and his name is Donald Duck, is he a duck? j/k
HMMM...Well... if it looks like a woman and talks like a woman and smells like a woman, but when you lift up the skirt and a certain body part is there that isnt supposed to be there is it still a woman?
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdadio48
the icm is a neutral fair way and 0f course the chip leader deserves more equity. BUT the fairest way would be to play it out, than no one could complain about what they end up with in the end. of course the out of staters might not like having to come back but if the borg threw in a sweetner than it could work out.
There's no incentive for the person that might be in 3rd place to agree to come back and play this out. Right now, that player thinks they deserve 3rd place money. If they come back, they could go out in 15th, losing all that equity.

Borg1: We need you to come back and play this out.
Player3: Sorry, I can't make it due to my day job and family stuff.
Borg1: We're going to make you 27th place then.
Player3: My lawyer says the tournament was officially cancelled, I'm in 3rd place. He'll be calling you for my money and extra for 'my troubles'.

<Borg1 finishes conversation with Player3, talks to borg rep2>
Borg1: So 3rd says he can't make it back and will sue if he doesn't get 3rd place money
Borg2: I just got off the phone with Player17. Says if we don't play it out he'll sue for first place money as he was on a rush when the tournament was cancelled and knows he would have taken it down.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 02:15 PM
Ridiculous examples above. 3rd place would be blinded out, not 27th. 17th is stupid to not take icm given 27-19 get around 8k.
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote
03-09-2014 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cf410
There's no incentive for the person that might be in 3rd place to agree to come back and play this out. Right now, that player thinks they deserve 3rd place money. If they come back, they could go out in 15th, losing all that equity.

Borg1: We need you to come back and play this out.
Player3: Sorry, I can't make it due to my day job and family stuff.
Borg1: We're going to make you 27th place then.
Player3: My lawyer says the tournament was officially cancelled, I'm in 3rd place. He'll be calling you for my money and extra for 'my troubles'.

<Borg1 finishes conversation with Player3, talks to borg rep2>
Borg1: So 3rd says he can't make it back and will sue if he doesn't get 3rd place money
Borg2: I just got off the phone with Player17. Says if we don't play it out he'll sue for first place money as he was on a rush when the tournament was cancelled and knows he would have taken it down.
interesting, good thought... the only thing though is that none of the 27 have "placed" yet, they gave out a paper that told us what position we were in according to our chip stack size so i dont think a player can say that. the hold up very well may be the borgata begging the dge to let them finish this mtt so that they dont get sued. (at least by the remaining 27)
Borgata finds counterfeit 5k chips in WPO #1-Cncls event-Arrest made-Lawsuit filed-*RULING OUT* Quote

      
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