A bit like it meaning nothing like it at all?

I don’t think he’s too dumb to be a racist, and also he has youngsters like Steven Miller on staff to suggest these kinds of dogwhistles.

Unfortunately this type of toxic creep is very much normalized in societal discussions and the MSM and Politicians have far more culpability in it than do these low level plebes.


MSM has absolutely normalized the 'both sides', 'alternative facts' type arguments because they are good for ratings and there is a wrong headed belief that civility, even in the face of lies is important which translates to 'don't call them a liar (or those lies) because it is rude. Instead just debate them as countering ideas'.

The more citizens see those in power get away with it and not just on giant lies and I believe it is more corrosive on the more subtle ones, the more it becomes normal for citizens to say 'if I can provide any other possibility that they mean anything else with that white supremacist symbol... then that is enough that you cannot state that is what they meant'.


The most normalizing and in our face examples of this are current situations like Joe Manchin and Sinema clearly lying about their motivations on voting against or blocking key legislation that helps working families and is seen as encroaching in any way on the current corporate power imbalance. Every time Manchin or Sinema further those lies MSM should say 'who are you advocating for? What polls or data as we see the opposite? We know for fact these are business lobby priorities so show us they are in fact things that Dem and Independent voters do not want if you are going to maintain that as a position?'

That is what good investigative MSM journalism does. They investigate the claims and if they cannot substantiate them they call it out as BS. They don't just accept the narrative as just a 'side' and thus worthy of being put on the air unchallenged.

There is a bright line, imo between that and people adopting those same tactics in real life.

A bit but when some twats try and coopt somethign we dont have to acquiesce like trolley does

We can just tell them to **** off.

I would absolutely include Trump.

There are only two rationale reasons to accept when it comes to why Trump would continue to flash it when each and every time it is met with criticism and speculation and the far right White Supremacist have stated they feel he is directly communicating to them and that they now have support for their views from the highest level of office.


Even if we believe Trump did it by mistake the first time, he would be made aware by his image people of what the perception was and how it emboldened White Nationalists so then his two choices with that info are :

- It is not how i intended it and I am not going to be bullied in to not doing so if that means White Supremacists get emboldened then be damned. That is just the cost of me not submitting to bullying.

- I know and am sending a symbol


I don't see an Option 3 but am open to what it might be?

If the suggestion is he simply cannot stop this unconscious gesture do you think if this symbol was coopted by Antifa and they had the same positive reaction doing it so often at his rallies he would not be able to deliberately avoid doing it?


Is there another explanation plausible for the growing casual dropping of Qanon slogans by Mike Flynn and GOP members? Of course. But just like the appeals to the White supremist/Nationalist crowd we also see the same to the Qanon crowd.

Is it anything resembling reasonable or just to pretend it simply just 'another side'? Or as I say above an extension of this growing courtesy to not pointedly point out lies' that actually is leading to far more toxicity?

First time yes, totally agree.

But one thing Trump is, is image obsessed.

Flip this to an Antifa symbol and you see him learn real quick and remove it from his repertoire. I have no doubt about that.

It's a hand gesture that a lot of people use (DonkJr even posted a picture of Obama using it). He is probably doing it subconsciously. Also note the orientation of the palm is often different when used as a white supremacist symbol.

Agreed

I honestly can't believe this is something you guys expend calories thinking about.

TTHRIC

I also think if Obama got a huge ovation for a gesture from, say a militant arm of the Black Panthers (if such still existed) he would not keep repeating th gesture.

He too was very image conscious. So one time yes. After being made aware, no.


( :: enter tan suit pic to disprove my Obama image point :: )

lost on the guy who expends so many calories constantly jumping to the defense of every abuse by the rich and powerful and piling on the poor and disenfranchised.


Certain priorities are just worth the calorie burn I guess.

I just think there are enough indisputably terrible things Trump has said and done that we don't need to search out the more tenuous ones.

If thinking burns calories then my guess is ins is in the red part of the bmi chart.

Dude is literally getting away with trying to overthrow the government.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what he does or what we say about it. He's ****ing golden.

The OK sign is not white supremacist code. That was made up by 4chan.

How is a code made up by white supremacists not a white supremacist code again?

4chan is full of junior high school trolls for the most part, WTF. Pretty soon you'll start worrying about Nazi bronies. The OK sign is totally harmless 99+ per cent of the time.

It's been at least a part of wp hand signs since the 90s--because I can remember seeing people do it back then. Though they were making fun of it.

lol, Howard coming in over the top with gaslighting takes from Breitbart.

Many people in this country view property damage as worse than the death of any amount of Black people or of anyone not on some fascist tip with them. I'm not one of those people. Property is property. People are people. People are important and invaluable. Property, not so much...more like a tool that can be used for it's intended purpose or sort of like a hostage in a righteous cause.


Yeah, in so doing I'm underscoring the point that you can't get anywhere in this county by communicating and expecting some empathy or human consideration. This is capitalism. This is people all tying to F each other over in a mad scramble to deplete the health and stability of the world as it's converted into personal assets. You have to hurt people in some way to get anywhere here, whether that is burning down property or walking off the job. This is the consequence of adopting the ethics of greed.


Which will in turn be met with counter resistance.

You are a very odd duck.

Toilet fetishes, constantly channeling flywf trying to inject race where it doesn't belong, just poor overall communication skills, and always quick to chime in with an incorrect take.

By weight, your brain uses a higher percentage of calories every day than almost any other part of your body. Those neurons don't fire themselves, son.

Neither do assistants to the slumlord. Better get back to sending out eviction notices before the boss man catches you goofing off on the internet.

Your inability to understand your own words and actions doesn't have much bearing on my communications skills. But thanks for the tip.

Your brain has to fire some neurons to keep your fat azz sitting up straight while you're eating your donuts. So You do have a point. Still, the extra calories you'd burn by learning not to be a moron would probably help you come beach time.

There's no reason to give them an opening. We know Trump is a White supremacist and that he gives numerous explicit indications of this so there is no reason to open a discussion where there is any ambiguity. Plus it blends a discussion of explicit White supremacist signaling into the whole Trump polemics and makes it look like a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.

Today's sophomoric trolls are tomorrow's brownshirts.