1. You're probably lying and you're just white, but there are a few non-white white supremacists out there, so whatever, Uncle Ruckus. Over the last like 15 years, whenever I see somebody driving by with a Bush/Trump/anti-abortion/etc. bumper sticker, I play a little game, "see if this conservative is white". I've done this maybe 200 times and I don't believe I've ever lost. This is in a diverse, major American city. So I feel good even if this time I mis-raced someone.

2. I didn't say you voted Republican. You don't have to be a Republican to be a right-wing psycho. Kinda like how I'm not a Democrat. You are, though, a remarkably terrible and disgusting person. Your posts just DRIP with racism, resentment, a lack of knowledge about the actual functioning of our planet's societies, and numerous other ugly personality and intelligence flaws.

3. Of course, you never addressed my actual point, which was to obliterate your moronic argument that your predicted lack of coverage regarding Brooks vs. Rittenhouse in the media was evidence of the media's slanted race-based agenda (instead of the simple, obvious explanation). You wrote "this case will not receive 1/1000th the outrage of Rittenhouse". Well, you and your crew of reactionary flunkies have already shown enough outrage to refute that, all of two days later. But anyway, nah, much easier to talk about thugs.

Well no. If it's rioting time, you gotta find the man and burn his shiit down. You ain't him. And if grandma, who used to roll her wheelchair to the corner pharmacy has to find a way to travel 30 miles to a pharmacy not burned to the ground for her diabetes meds, well **** her.

I do appreciate the sentiment that if rioters came over to your house, you'd hand them your propane tank and tell them to just wait until you get your dog out of the house.

Yeah, I'm over here shedding a tear for all the racists and fascists who have been removed from polite society in America. I mean, Donald Trump, Steven Miller, Tucker Carlson, Peter King, MTG, roughly 1000 radio talk-show hosts all around the country, and all the rest are ghosts these days, phantoms with no influence or power. Cultural icons like twoplustwo.com poster d2_e4 have cleaned these guys up!

Oh wait, practically the opposite of this has happened. Huh. It must just be yet another example of right-wing self-victimization...

lol at the constant worrying about "wokeness" and "cancel culture" when the infinitely more powerful phenomenon known as "capitalism" is what actually moves our American society.

Well, Rittenhouse made it clear that he's considering defamation claims, and actual malice is an element of libel for public figures. I haven't read NYT v Sullivan in quite a while, but my recall is that Rittenhouse would be at least a limited public figure for which actual malice would be an element of his claim.

I'm personally quite skeptical about Rittenhouse's libel claims. Coverage of this case from CNN, the NYT and Slate has been affirmatively deceptive, but I haven't seen many outright lies.

I did think Rittenhouse came off reasonably well in his interview, although Carlson asked exactly zero difficult questions of him.

Likening the OK sign to a swastika is a wild exaggeration.

We all have our subjective impressions of Rittenhouse. Ultimately, only time will tell.

I wasn't. I was responding to Rococo's "trident" hypothetical to point out that exactly something like that has happened before.

Fair point. The general discussion of co-opting symbols is a bit of a derail. Seems to me that anyone who professes any certainty as to Rittenhouse's subjective intent on the supremacist front is an ideologue.

Why?

I mean sure, if what you are saying is with the benefit of hindsight we can see what the Nazi's went on to do and its not comparable in that regard.

But what about before the Nazi's first real depraved actions where they were more of an aspiring behind the scenes movement focused on using xenophobia as a means to an ends?

If instead the Nazi's adopted that ok symbol instead of the religiously tied swastika symbol what would be the difference in your view?

Exactly. Just because he flashes white power symbols at the camera while partying with Proud Boys, that doesn’t mean he’s probably a Nazi dipshit. It’s quite possible he’s going deep-cover to infiltrate hate groups so he can expose them later, and it would be unfair to assume otherwise.

Hanging around the proud boys seems pretty clear cut. Do you think he was doing outreach work or something? I'm sure it's an entirely new strain of humanity and has no connections to earlier iterations of the same kinds of clowns. Sometimes things are just as simple as they appear

Confirmed that Mr. Obama is a White Supremacist.

Hopefully he will dispapear into obscurity and in decades to come only nerds will prick their ears in recognition and wonder if you mean the facist chap who tried to start a war with the klingons.

In the short term then big surprise he will find the company of that that seem to like him rather than those who seem to hate him.

As I understand what he has said about that, the picture was taken on the day he made bail. He was having a beer in a bar with his mom and had no idea that the guys he was taking pictures with were proud boys. No part of his history on social media or elsewhere ever indicated any supremacist leanings or posts of any kind. Other than the timing, I don't know if any of that is in fact true. Nor does anyone who assumes the opposite, which is my point.

This!!!

This discussion of "racist hand gestures" is stupid even by P&S standards.

Trident might be tough.

How about a teaspoon or a banana?

I believe servicemen commonly use the trident as a symbol of their affiliation with Navy SEALs.

No one is suggesting every use of OK is a White Supremist gesture and its a strawman to say 'hey others sometimes do it thus it cannot be a White Supremist gesture'.

I think those who are white supremacists or those interested in providing them cover want that to be the accepted stance.


For the rest of us who do care about this stuff, the argument being put forth by white supremacists every time they show up at protests or events (and now when someone is killed) is that race has nothing to do with why they are there.

They brazenly say it is not about race and within minutes start dog whistling to their base (ala how Trump would) with symbols and slightly veiled statements.

Society should not ignore it just because the supremacists or their defenders will always jump in and say 'but it is possible they meant something else'.


If I am in the direct company of avowed and proud white supremacists as Kyle was and I am flashing the OK symbol the default position should not be it is an innocent use of OK.

It's also a nuclear submarine

so it has macho associations and is hardly goign to run into casual use. It sometimes appears as cutlery which is no doubt proof of allegence to hitler who I hear had one ball and used a trident as a fork

So it was just a random coincidence that the guy carrying a rifle to the protest ran into other guys that like to do the same thing--while they were there supporting him? That is weird

Actually, I think the Trident is the nuclear missile system on board some nuclear subs but please check me as necessary on this trivial point.

It could happen to anyone, you’re just a teenager having a beer in a bar with your mom when suddenly a bunch of Proud Boys want to hang out and make OK signs! Kyle is not a rightwing dipshit, it’s just that the actual rightwing dipshits think he’s one of them for some odd reason.

The "okay" symbol is universal, at least in the USA. It can't be appropriated by any sub-group any more than giving your buddy a high-five can be. If White Supremacists start high-fiveing each other in public on a regular basis, should all people of good will stop doing the high-five?

Someone doing the "okay gesture" in the company of white supremacists is bad because "OK" means agreement with those he is with, not because the gesture itself symbolizes White Supremacy.

I've no idea what you're talking about. Rittenhouse and Dominic Black both testified that they went to the Car Source together. Black was Rittenhouse's sister's boyfriend and Rittenhouse's best friend; Rittenhouse stayed at Black's place the previous evening. As I remember the testimony, they met Ryan Balch -- another guy with a rifle -- and Rittenhouse was with him for at least part of the evening in question. To my knowledge, there was no testimony whatsoever that Rittenhouse was any part of an organized group.

What any of this has to do with photos in a bar months later after Rittenhouse got out of jail is anyone's guess.

Binger, the ridiculously overreaching and sleazy prosecutor, certainly tried to intimate some sort of militia affiliation, but that theme to my understanding was entirely without evidentiary support. Happy to hear otherwise if you have facts to support your position.

I think you are correct

Having kept some loose tabs on White supremacist rhetoric over the years this is my impression of the White supremacist hierarchy of hate:

1) Jews. Although there is a small movement in the White supremacist's subculture to accept Jews as Whites and equals or near equals, it doesn't have anything near mass appeal. The Jews are the scapegoats who account for the White man's supposed victimization because blaming it at Blacks undermines the Black inferiority narrative. You can't say you are being bested by those you regard as clever monkeys. It's preferable to say you are being bested by 2% of the population who you also describe as sickly and weak (the neo Nazis aren't know for consistency in their political philosophy). They think once the Jews release their spells over the White Christians they can get right to priming those large ovens again.

2) Blacks. It all boils down to dick size envy. It's got to. Blaming an extremely marginalized 13% of the population for your problems makes no sense.

3) Whites who defend Blacks. This is the category in which White supremacists place the victims of Rittenhouse. They refer to such people as race traitors and put them very high on the hate list.

4) Gays. There has to be a decent amount of repressed homosexuality here. I mean, surrounding yourself with dudes while guaranteeing no woman will want anything to do with you? The neo Nazis have to be like 70% closeted homosexuals.

So victims of White supremacists don't have to be Black to be targeted.