British Politics - Page 103 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

No, we did this but there is no point because the relevant facts wont peirce your hysteria.

Labour lost because they lost X seats.

They did not have a historically low % share of the vote, higher than both Brown and Milliband defeats.

Majority of X seats voted leave.

If we drill down in X seats, we see that the larger the victory for leave the higher the swing away from Labour, there is a clear and super duper ****ing obvious correlation.

The red wall seats that Labour lost, predominantly leave seats.

Shut up, go away and tend your 'shrine' to Nigel Farage. You know you want to.

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06-19-2020 , 02:55 PM

#2552

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by 57 On Red

Shut up, go away and tend your 'shrine' to Nigel Farage. You know you want to.

Hahahaha

Really, this super weak throw **** against wall and hopes its sticks is your pathetic attempt at counter argument.

Hysterical claim obviously true.

Ive hated harder on farage itt than you have.

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06-19-2020 , 02:57 PM

#2553

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by 57 On Red

Shut up, go away and tend your 'shrine' to Nigel Farage. You know you want to.

X social groups hated Corbyn but only expressed that hate in leave seats but its nothing to do with Brexit.

Go and tend your shrine to **** arguments.

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06-19-2020 , 03:03 PM

#2554

57 On Red

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 5,883

Elections don't work the way you think they do. People don't work the way you think they do. Society doesn't work the way you think it does. In fact, nothing works the way you think it does.

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06-19-2020 , 03:04 PM

#2555

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Just the fact that Labour won a bigger % of the vote than under Brown and Milliband but lost more seats is all you need to know.

Its because the votes they lost were concentrated in leave seats and that hurts you in a first past the post system.

If there lost vote share was spread equally amongst seats then they still lose but its not the disaster of the election past.

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06-19-2020 , 03:05 PM

#2556

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by 57 On Red

Elections don't work the way you think they do. People don't work the way you think they do. Society doesn't work the way you think it does. In fact, nothing works the way you think it does.

Making substantive rational arguments does not work the way you think it does.

Keep up with the ad hominems, does a great job of proving my point about your hysteria.

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06-19-2020 , 04:37 PM

#2557

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

Well going on the reasoning for why Labour lost them, that most of this forum when all in in on in the most hysterical way.

Electing a new leader is all that is required.

I still have some blissfully unaware 'friends', made rich by their parents, who claim that labour were unelectable due to Corbyn. You can tell they're already doing the groundwork to absolve themselves of any guilt associated with their Brexit vote. This is the same crowd that can only mount one defence to the tory handling of covid that is basically... Corbyn would've handled this just as badly. It's such a pathetic response that I just don't talk about it with them any more. They know they ****ed up.

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06-20-2020 , 02:46 PM

#2558

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiMor29

This isn't a bad thing. Just spoke at length with someone who hated corbyn and voted boris. They are unlikely to change their mind on corbyn but fast going off boris and quite likely to vote labour next time.

Importantly that's because I'm getting them to see that the extent of the covid crises is down to Boris & co. I'm not trying to persuade them that Corbyn wouldn't have been as bad because I wont win that argument but who cares?

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06-20-2020 , 03:35 PM

#2559

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Got to be a non trivial chance Boris is not leader by next GE.

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06-20-2020 , 03:44 PM

#2560

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,036

A point I have made a lot.

It can't all be about attacking boris (even more so re cummings), KS will have to offer something positive. It's far too early for that through

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06-21-2020 , 12:17 AM

#2561

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

I have some decent money on boris not being the PM by June 2022. He'll be hung out to dry as soon as the brexit disaster becomes apparent.

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06-21-2020 , 12:19 AM

#2562

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

It's not like he's actually forming policy, and there are plenty of equally stupid sharks waiting for their chance to be the next patsy.

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06-21-2020 , 07:17 AM

#2563

Husker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,923

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiMor29

I have some decent money on boris not being the PM by June 2022. He'll be hung out to dry as soon as the brexit disaster becomes apparent.

There was an interesting article in the Spectator about just how important it is that we get a deal with the EU. I wouldn't be surprised if some are hoping for no deal and will just go down the route of blaming the EU for it but it's clear that 'strategy' won't wash.

A Government that's trying to please everyone and actually pleasing no-one?

From The Spectator:

It isn’t news to say the Johnson administration doesn’t understand how to fight Covid-19 or reopen schools or save the economy. But the knowledge that it doesn’t understand the people who put it in power is new and worth hearing.

A poll given to The Spectator today by the Best for Britain think tank shows the gap between ‘Red Wall’ voters and the Tory elite in London is dizzyingly wide. It reports overwhelming opposition to a no-deal Brexit in the seats that put Johnson in Downing Street. As striking is the widespread concern about living standards and equally valid worries about the Conservatives tying Britain to the Trump administration.

Best for Britain’s pollsters interviewed 5,317 people across the country from 9 May to 5 June. Its researchers employed the most respected and intensive polling technique – multilevel regression and post-stratification analysis, which uses statistics on past votes and demographics, as well as the poll results. They focused on 44 constituencies which the Conservatives won in 2019 from Labour in the North and Midlands.

I’ll give you the findings first and then my analysis of why opinion is moving. 70 per cent of Red Wall voters said they wanted to work with Europe, whereas only 20 per cent said America should be the UK's main partner.

The researchers then asked, ‘The Conservative campaign manifesto said that the Government would pursue "a new free trade agreement with the EU [and that] this will be a new relationship based on free trade and friendly cooperation”. How important is it that the Government keeps this promise?’ Every which way you could cut up the pro-Brexit, pro-Tory vote, the answer was the same.

Red wall average: 88.9 per cent think government keeping promise to get a trade deal is either very important (55 per cent) or important (33.9 per cent)

Red wall Tory voters: 90.8 per cent think government keeping promise to get a trade deal is either very important (54.8 per cent) or important (36 per cent)

Red wall Leave voters: 88.6 per cent think government keeping promise to get a trade deal is either very important (51.7 per cent) or important (36.5 per cent)

Red wall switchers (Lab-Con): 91.5 per cent think government keeping promise to get a trade deal is either very important (57.2 per cent) or important (34.2 per cent)

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06-21-2020 , 07:42 AM

#2564

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Totally unsurprising. The hard liners are banking on no deal to make a boatload of cash, the converts are banking on a deal to actually change their lives. It just goes to show how badly they have been seduced. It's sad on all counts, I won't even get to say "I told you so" as it will be considered inappropriate, even gauche. And we will have to forgive and forget that it even happened. Brutal.

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06-21-2020 , 08:25 AM

#2565

sixfour

should be called sevenfour

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 74,862

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Importantly that's because I'm getting them to see that the extent of the covid crises is down to Boris & co. I'm not trying to persuade them that Corbyn wouldn't have been as bad because I wont win that argument but who cares?

Not really sure how you can say that, doesn't really seem as if government choices would have made a significant difference to how covid played out either way, the ridiculous mistakes they're making are right now by introducing pointless quarantining of inbound visitors and reducing "lockdown" measures at a glacial pace

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06-21-2020 , 09:22 AM

#2566

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,036

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixfour

I think most people can understand that huge amounts more could and should have been done much earlier on PPE, Testing and protecting staff & patients in care home/hospitals

Much of how how to handle covid was either very hard or required preparations beforehand but there is absolutely no excuse for the government not have to done this easy stuff with far more urgency.

Pathetic effort by the government in doing their ****ing job.

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06-21-2020 , 01:41 PM

#2567

PartyGirlUK

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23,530

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06-21-2020 , 02:44 PM

#2568

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixfour

This is a flame thrower of a hot take.

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06-25-2020 , 11:33 AM

#2569

Husker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,923

Starmer not messing about today. Good to see.

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06-25-2020 , 11:53 AM

#2570

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,859

Indeed. Starmer draining the racist marxists from the swamp.

contrast that with Johnson, whose lack of leadership could not be more evident.

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06-25-2020 , 12:20 PM

#2571

Husker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,923

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

Indeed. Starmer draining the racist marxists from the swamp.

contrast that with Johnson, whose lack of leadership could not be more evident.

Looking at twitter all the right people are outraged, Jones, Cousin, Sarkar, McDonnell.

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06-25-2020 , 01:03 PM

#2572

PartyGirlUK

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23,530

Wild that Long-Bailey didn't delete the tweet and offer a genuine apology displaying she understood why Peake's comment was anti-Semitic. That would have easily sufficed.

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06-25-2020 , 02:35 PM

#2573

Hoopie1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 26,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husker

Looking at twitter all the right people are outraged, Jones, Cousin, Sarkar, McDonnell.

It wasn't long ago that Jones was declaring zero tolerance on anti semitism. But not in this case.

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06-25-2020 , 03:19 PM

#2574

57 On Red

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 5,883

Quote:

Originally Posted by PartyGirlUK

Wild that Long-Bailey didn't delete the tweet and offer a genuine apology displaying she understood why Peake's comment was anti-Semitic. That would have easily sufficed.

She was told to delete and she refused, so she volunteered for the sack. She probably imagined it was going to make trouble for the leader. It's not. And, when the EHRC report drops, there's likely to be quite a bit more of this.