TableNinja for RealDeal- kinda pricey tho

Just take the blue pill, it's easier that way.

They tried that about a year ago or something, both the inventor/CEO and the marketing guy he hired. They were flamed so badly they gave up in a couple days. The thread is around somewhere. And that is when they were even still saying every single deal would come straight off the shuffling machine, "just like a real live game". They were not good at taking criticism/skepticism at all, and didn't represent themselves well.

I am not going to play on Real Deal Poker but I don't understand how people don't phathom how this can be done. It is so simple that it is brilliant.

1. Imagine an empty table. Imagine I have 2000 decks of cards. I shuffle ONE deck in front of a camera and show the arrangement of the cards on camera while placing them together to be ready for dealing.

2. The cards are now shuffled, screened and ready to be dealt so we place that deck, call it deck #1, on the table.

3. Repeat this process until you have thousands of shuffled, screened and ready to be dealt decks on the table numbering 1-2000.

4. Now imagine a machine taking place of the shuffling, screening and dealing process and you have real deal poker. It is simply taking preshuffled decks and dealing them out through a computer that ALREADY screened them.

It is simply preshuffled real decks, ready to be dealt. I don't get why it is so hard to understand.

Not how I choose to play but some people might like that style.

It's not possible to store every deck combination, because you would fill up the entire universe many times over with hard disks just storing the information.

Thus, you need to shuffle decks either as fast or faster than they are used (obviously - otherwise you will run out of decks). That's simply not possible mechanically if you have just three such machines. Obviously, physically shuffling an entire deck 65 times a second is impossible.

OMG. Listen please, it is so simple.

You shuffle a REAL deck and STORE that info DIGITALLY to be used later. It is that simple.

A shuffled deck of 52 numbers in a SPECIFIC arrangement is small on the data scale, that you could place literally billions of decks in something the size of a micorwave. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand?

once again:

A single deck is shuffled (NOT DEALT) and DIGITALLY stored for later use.

Imagine it in real world terms:

You have a single real deck. You shuffle it and place it to the side for later use.
You shuffle another deck. Place it to the side for later use.
So on and so on until you have millions of VERIFIED decks ready to be dealt.

Is it that hard to understand?

No.
No, you:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=196
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=198

Apparently it is hard for you.

The three machines in use can generate something like 30 decks per minute, max. Probably less. So let's say they take a month to store up some decks. Now they have about a million decks. That will last a day or so if they have any traffic at all. On a big site it would last an hour.

The owners have already said they are not doing the original idea, of mechanically shuffling a deck for every deal. They are "creating" 2704 variants by computer algorithm, from every shuffled deck. Not randomly mind you, but by fixed algorithm. They totally screwed their idea, and whatever merit it originally had, when they found out they needed a warehouse stacked full of machines to do what they originally said.

Lol this guy is gonna try to school Josem on something that was already laid out as clearly as it could possibly be. The least you could do at least read the thread before you take a stab at explaining something that is beyond you.

I'm not taking a shot saying it is beyond you but most people just dont understand how many combinations we are talking about, trillions of trillions doesn't begin to approach it much less the billions you mentioned and that is the bare minimum space requirments to store the card suit/rank, these people when you add the space required to provide digital image replay of the deck used in a hand being reviewed you are going to increase the number signifigantly.

These people made claims that didn't hold water and they are being called out on it. Hell we all get schooled from time to time I didn't realize they had a previous thread here... might make for some good tourney reading.

Gotta love it when people quote themselves to prove a point.

So was it more criticism/scepticism or outright flaming?
I couldn't blame them if they didn't want to deal with the trolling that goes on here (apparantly some sanction it or sanction certain ones).

A lot of the questions posed here are entirley legitimate and the only thing that fat drunk guy did on his 'videos' was address questions on the quality of a burn card and why they used it and why it was good that the deck was cut it was pretty gd agonizing to watch the 3 or 4 that were posted but somehow I did and I laughed then I cried because I realized that I'd never get those 12 minutes back and I damn well may have lost some mental capacity because of it.

I think PokerStars should use a burn card, have it flip up and burn in the air if you have animations on too, doesn't really make any difference to me.

Josem is one of the few who can say that and actually pwn someone.

He was simply pointing you to where he had put it laymans terms (as best it could be) and I don't think he was doing it to prove a point, I think it was just a few posts before I made refernce to his post then you came along with the drivel about "ZOMG it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO simple".

Josem doesn't need to prove a point, it is doubtful that you even know who he is or what he played a role into accomplishing in the past.

Gotta love it when an idiot gets handed a little piece of rope...

Why should we have to retype everything because you didn't read it the first time?

It's not a particularly difficult concept: the number of possible combinations of a deck is so huge that it is beyond thinking about. 52! is so huge that it is basically irrelevant: the fundamental point is that it is not possible to store every possible combination, which is why no one would ever bother even trying.



Thus, the only possible solution is to generate a random deck on demand. A site like PokerStars does it with a relatively simple random shuffling system that uses the random data from players and quantum mechanics to shuffle, and discloses the shuffling technique fairly simply on the website. A live casino employs a human to shuffle and deal out a deck, shuffling afresh for each deal. That's also fairly transparent: you can see it happening in front of you.

If someone is going to come up with a new system that doesn't use either of the existing models, then it seems entirely reasonable that people will ask questions and challenge false assumptions.

It works like a random number generator except it's not certified.

fyp

Their future now depends on if/when they receive IoM certification.

That's funny.........thinking they have a future.

Whether or not that's true, I think they may have issues since a game certification requires that the dealing process be random. They are inserting algorithmic manipulation into the process to produce more decks using fixed patterns. I'm not sure how they'll sell that to the inspectors, and I'm pretty sure it won't pass a diehard test or other tests for randomness. If they use every deck 52 times, with fixed permutations to create the 51 virtual ones, the distribution will be chock full of patterns.

It is likely that the certification contractor has the same questions we do.

An interesting summary of the Diehard Tests at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diehard_tests

would be sad if this site dies before it even starts

Yes I agree it will be terrible if the site dies before it starts. I want people figure out a way to exploit it, felt the rigtards over and over and then the rigtards will be saying that site is rigged, when in all actuality it is just flawed.

I hope it passes whatever certifications it needs to (though I trust the stats guys here to feel it may be in trouble). I do enjoy the the irony that non-riggies are pointing out potential flaws in a system to essentially protect clueless riggies (who believe based on faith).

However, I also want to see how their business model plays out. I mentioned the affiliate site from years ago that exploited the paranoia of riggies to make good money, and frankly I thought that was a beautiful idea. In contrast, I have some serious doubts that this poker room business model can thrive long term, though I do respect that they thought of a unique marketing approach.

I truly do not care if their deal is as they promised, I never assumed it would be, nor does it matter if it is what they promised initially to riggies. As long as it is a valid random deal then some riggies will have faith because they are being acknowledged for the first time ever by a poker room, and THAT is the potentially interesting dynamic at work here.

Personally, I do not believe true riggies account for much of the market and they are by nature paranoid and fickle, moving between rooms as the patterns develop in their mind. They are even worse than bonus whores in a business sense as customers.

Still, some will probably look at Real Deal as their oasis, and if Real Deal can exploit riggie beliefs and capitalize on them to actually succeed then I will be the first to give them two thumbs up for a creative approach to break into a very mature market.

I still believe the segment they are targeting is too small (and not loyal as well) to make it work long term, but hopefully we will see how it plays out.

Good post.

The fact that games such as hold'em require only 23 dealt cards (for a 9-handed game) may ultimately reduce their theoretical exploitability enough for them to get certified with restrictions on the number of virtual decks spawned from each physical deck.

We built this city on rock and roll ♬

We built this business on rig-tards ♬