so now i get to win all ur money risk free. i just raise pre and u fold. ur scared to ship all 30 of ur bb's in so u fold. nit

lol @ ih8money

There is no advantage over an opponent due to stack size in heads-up as the effective stack size for both players is equal to the shorter stack size of the two players. Since some players like to play 20bb stacks heads-up, it was important to offer this choice instead of moving to a 30bb minimum.

There are quite a number of players, both regulars and recreational, who only want to play with either short or deep effective stacks. The two different game types allow for more efficient matchmaking; a player sitting down at a table is much more likely to get action rather than be refused.

Normal tables allow players more time to make each decision.

Something wrong with VIP status after restart

It's shows me Silver Star(made yesterday) instead of my Platium Star. My friend has same issue.

fix it please.

And as we all saw with the PLO changes this is a valid argument for Pokerstars for not removing a popular game.

Sry couldn't help myself...


But it's good to know that in the whole Pokerstars universe 20bb PLO players are (till now) the only popular group of players that are not welcomed to play and pay rake...

Is there going to be a chance of CAP NLHE HU tables appearing in the future? Currently there are players who wish to play heads up but don't have the proper tables to do so, relying on other players being courteous regarding not joining in.

Any estimate on when we can expect an update?
It is annoying to try and fire up 24 tables for a session and not have the auto buy-in working.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but it seems relevant to reduce or remove the rathole timer in CAP games due to the nature of the game (where it is possible to accumulate or lose buyins very quickly). If a player leaves and returns in a CAP game, taking some money off the table, it has no impact whatsoever on the game strategy or flow, due to the capped betting structure. However, as a multitabler, there have been situations where literally my entire bankroll is in play because I've lost and reloaded on several tables while winning repeatedly multiple times on others.

In this scenario I'd love to open another table but can't without giving up a juicy table, because I'm needlessly sitting 250bb deep in a 20bb CAP game.


I dunno. Is there a rathole timer in Limit holdem? If I accidentally sit with my full bankroll, can I stand up and buy in again with a more reasonable amount, or is my bankroll locked in there for two hours, forcing me to give up a good seat (or opt to play only a single table) due to a misclick?

Other than that, I think the changes are good.

Is there a possibility of offering 20bb CAP PLO? I never really played at the short PLO tables, but it seems like that sort of game could generate a lot of action/gamble.

It makes no sense to have more than a 30 minute timer at CAP tables, for all the reasons you stated. Of course, you don't want guys sitting down with 20, winning a couple small pots, and then leaving, as that would disrupt the game flow, but 30 minutes is more than enough to make that type of behavior impractical. Please reduce it to 30 minutes or less...

LOL so you guys want to rathole CAP now. I recommend you learn to manage your bankroll better or play less tables.

LOL. No really. LOL.

Been away for a while, like the changes at first glance!

Yes you must change the rathole timer just in-case starvingwriter82 missclicks his whole roll again.

And who cares about limit holdem? they killed that last year along with full ring Limit o8.

just remove all the short buy in tables. min buy 50 BB and that's that. no more short stacks allowed.

oh yea +1 for reload bonus...

i dont like stars or tilt
but good take your leeching ass to tilt
whah whah im a skillless nit who plays break even poker and thinks i should be able to make a living that way

you didnt generate 200k for stars last year nice try
they use the dealt method for crying out loud and set up a rediculous system which gives high volume no action giving nits a disproportionate ammount of rakeback (rakeback on rake you didnt even pay)

yea go to tilt where youll get rakeback on rake you actually paid
see how long that lasts
have fun looking for a job

pretty funny when you have to "learn" how to play 30 blind plo
lmao as if thats even really plo
pathetic

the best part is you couldnt give 2 ***** about fairness with your flawed arguments
if stars opened up a 10 blind plo game and you and you alone could make more with that than you could with your amazing skillset at the deep thinking 20 blind plo games you would be fine with it, regardless of what happened to the 20 blind game

you want a poker site to provide you with the ability to make a living leeching off of a flawed system without any actual poker skill
if they dont you're gonna be pissed no matter what (understandable as you will be working for min wage within a year or 2)

if he could he would

wow ih8money
just looked up your tableratings
seriously just hang yourself

ptr doesn't calculate rake correctly by the way. It is way less than actual rake paid. And ptr shows he has paid 265k of rake, so in reality that could be over 400k. Assuming he gets at least 33% of that back through the vip program he is up well over $100,000 conservatively. Hardly worthy of hanging oneself.

Please post less sir.

It's not surprising from his posts that he was "profiting" from the VIP program by putting in massive volume in games where he was either barely winning, breaking even, or losing. He's not the only player who had that bright idea and he, like others in both PLO and NL, are finally feeling the negative effects of such a short sighted decision. He is likely upset because this change will prevent him from putting in the volume he wants to maintain a commensurate "profit" and he'll either have to learn how to win at the tables (which he currently can't do) or find another game (which may not exist) he can generate the same amount of rake while only being a small winner, loser, or break-even player.

Unfortunately for most of those players, the well is drying up. PLO doesn't have CAP or 20bb games. NLHE doesn't have anything less than a 40bb buy-in and CAP tables are labeled "CAP" and aren't as popular as NLHE and will probably see a decline in popularity as time goes on because not as many fish are in those games, there are no full stackers to exploit, and the worst ratholers will realize they aren't making money and move on to something else which makes the games even tougher.

Although I don't actively wish ill will towards other people, I simply can't feel sorry for ratholers in NL or PLO. It was obviously a bad decision from day 1 and Stars should have eliminated the loophole a LONG time ago.

Phatty I don't understand why you have profit in quotes. You do realize the six-figure incomes many fpppro's receive are in actual dollars and spend just as well as money earned from table wins, right?

I think you're right that various changes Stars has made will reduce the number of fpppro's, or at least their average income. Some will still do well, of course. But regardless, even for those who cannot make it work at all anymore, I don't see how getting it while the getting was good would be considered a mistake, or a short-sighted decision.

Based on your annual poker income, how many years would you have to grind to match the recent annual income of one of the top fpp guys? It's a rhetorical question, I'm not asking for your garph or meaning to single you out at all. But for many people, it's probably at least a decade. If their obective was to make money playing poker (which it undoubtedly was), top fpppro's were clearly doing it right.

1) how does he taste?
2) he has 0 poker skill whatsoever and i hope he saved a lot of that 100k he "earned"
he has no poker skill whatsoever- but he did exploit a flawed system
too bad it wont be around forever
3) its funny that this hypocrate wasnt crying when stars introduced these games even though it negatively impacted other players

The "profits" are in quotes because how you categorize that money in my mind is debatable. For me personally, when I think of "profits", I think of the money I win at the tables. The conditional rakeback, which could change at any moment and is COMPLETELY in Stars' hands and control is just icing on the cake. I'd find it unwise for anyone to tie up their livelihood into that conditional, Stars' control money. You could find yourself feeling the pain that ih8money is obviously feeling. It was short-sighted because it was based on a loophole that should have never existed and is now closed. That's what short-sighted means: you get it while the getting is good KNOWING it has a limited shelf-life and you have to start back from square 1 looking for new ways to make "profit". Fortunately, for the players who make money at the table using skill, their way of life has been getting a lot better and since the foundation of the game is based on skill, not loopholes or angleshooting, our future looks bright. If their goal was to make money playing poker now and in the future, they may have been doing it wrong.

Phatty and Borgbodog, et al. :

You guys realize that a huge % of SNE players are just breakeven guys that pay a **** load of rake.

Let's look at an example:
http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/2011/a...1s-079006.html

When this post came out, I checked Mr. Li's stats and it showed that he had lost $11k in 2011. He achieved Supernova Elite by breaking even in high level SNG's and paying a ton in rake. His profit all comes from rakeback so far.

Now nobody in the right mind would argue that Mr. Li "has no skill" and should "learn how to beat the games" instead of breaking even.

Yet, that is precisely what you guys are arguing for a different player and game.

I can think of countless other players who breakeven at the games they play, pay tons of rake, get SNE, and make a lot of cash because of it. Some are hyper turbo players, some are full ring NL cash players, some are plo 6max players, some are SNG specialists, some are Heads Up players, etc etc etc. The list goes on and on.

Profit does not necessarily equal ROI or bb/100. You have those concepts very confused. A player can be profitable with a negative ROI. Think of a HU SNG specialist who plays $5000+100 games. He might have -.25% roi, but he will come out way ahead in the long run.

Please see my above post in reference to the pokerstarsblog post about the first SNE of the year. As of this moment, this first SNE of the year has lost -$14,000 at the tables.

By your logic, he has no poker skill whatsoever. You will not find many other players who agree with you.