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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,503 34.88%
No
5,607 55.84%
Undecided
932 9.28%

03-04-2014 , 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maya36
Are u even old enough to play poker Tilted? Who feels the need to post a picture to make himself look so cool on a forum like this? Nice comeback...
Oh would u care too 1v1 since your also so good at poker too? Maybe u could teach me a few moves that i don't already know....
Holy **** that post.

"Oh would u care too 1v1 since your also so good at poker too?"

Is that even English?

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-04-2014 , 11:29 PM
LOL the mind of a scared 2 year old.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-04-2014 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maya36
Scary lol 2-year-old mind.
.?.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
I already know I'm a solid player so quit trying to tell me I'm not.
Indeed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
I had AK of course I'm never going to fold. But my premium hand was sucked out on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
Because no one folds AK. And if I did they'd just find some way to beat me later on, because they can see my hole cards and the hole cards of everyone else on the table. Why else am I losing at 2nl??
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
Why else would whenever I put stacks in, I'm almost always second best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maya36
Only an idiot would say some dumb **** like that.
Wait, you're not actually serious about this, are you? What he said was 100% correct, so I'd like to know what you thought was incorrect about it. Or are you just trolling?

Also, if you want to say ****, just type ****. Don't circumvent the profanity filter.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by laurents
I think you reached in this sentence the problem that lies in your sub-conscience. Poker will indeed not let you win consistently. I understand you would like to, but that's just not the way it goes. That is also what makes it so tough, it goes against justice. So there are basically two major problems when looking at poker: there is luck involved and it is hard to get a view of your skill level. These factors combined can create a lot of insecurity in the mind, and that is why poker is even tougher than most other games. And even in other games, I play chess, you can face many mental challenges. But with poker this is a way other ball-game, it is almost insane for the human mind. I hope you do realize this.
No. When I say win consistently I mean at least have some periods of winning, like 20k hands , not just win 5 buys then lose 5 buys to terrible bad beats and just going around in circles.



Here is my KK graph for 5nl rush. Just look at that pathetic show down. KK just does not hold up. Ev is close to worthless because it does not take into account the times you 3 bet 55c, get called by 46 and flop is 566, and you lose a stack which is just what happened to me just then and of course continues to happen. Just unbelievable, and this is micro. Its just pointless, from now on I am going to resort to just open shoving KK, thats how bad its become. Thats what you need to do to beat the rig.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
No. When I say win consistently I mean at least have some periods of winning, like 20k hands , not just win 5 buys then lose 5 buys to terrible bad beats and just going around in circles.



Here is my KK graph for 5nl rush. Just look at that pathetic show down. KK just does not hold up. Ev is close to worthless because it does not take into account the times you 3 bet 55c, get called by 46 and flop is 566, and you lose a stack which is just what happened to me just then and of course continues to happen. Just unbelievable, and this is micro. Its just pointless, from now on I am going to resort to just open shoving KK, thats how bad its become. Thats what you need to do to beat the rig.
You'll probably still say its rigged as you're only going to get called by AA
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 04:47 AM
Here is my KK graph by hour of the day:



Clearly, WSOP.nj is rigged against KK during the 1-2pm and 9-10pm hours each day. I'm going to start open folding them during these hours to increase my winrate.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 04:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltedDonkey
Here is my KK graph by hour of the day:



Clearly, WSOP.nj is rigged against KK during the 1-2pm and 9-10pm hours each day. I'm going to start open folding them during these hours to increase my winrate.
Do you ever fold KK postflop? (And i dont mean when an ace is on the board)
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfire444
Do you ever fold KK postflop? (And i dont mean when an ace is on the board)
Yes?



Perhaps you didn't catch the sarcasm in my "hours of the day" post.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
Ev is close to worthless because it does not take into account the times you 3 bet 55c, get called by 46 and flop is 566, and you lose a stack which is just what happened to me just then and of course continues to happen.
What?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog
What?
ev line does not account for coolers does it?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
ev line does not account for coolers does it?
If your post still makes sense to you after you read again just forget it.

Carry on.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 09:34 AM
I think I've given up completely on trying to explain statistics anymore.

Yesterday on SWC chat after a complaint about how something that was unlikely should have been impossible, someone else asked: If you roll a 6 sided die 10 times, what are the odds that a 6 will come up at least once.

There were people who literally could not understand that the odds could not be > 100%...

POKER players --- who didn't understand that you can't have a > 100% chance of something...

SMH, KMN, I give up.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 09:51 AM
At least you gave it a 110% effort.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 10:06 AM
And KK loses to AK again. Another stack gone. As usual drawing dead against any ace. The 'variance' continues. Its beyond all realms of numbers and statistics now. Why can't I just get a fair game ffs.
'
So now 263 times, and I'm down overall in show down winnings. That's what the rig does. Those aces hit like 10 outers.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 10:16 AM
Quit all forms of poker right now.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
And KK loses to AK again. Another stack gone. As usual drawing dead against any ace. The 'variance' continues. Its beyond all realms of numbers and statistics now. Why can't I just get a fair game ffs.
'
So now 263 times, and I'm down overall in show down winnings. That's what the rig does. Those aces hit like 10 outers.
Post screenshot of hand histories filtered to where you hold KK?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 10:22 AM
I just did a few posts up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Quit all forms of poker right now.

All the best.
When I bust my roll from the rig.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-05-2014 at 12:37 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
And KK loses to AK again. Another stack gone. As usual drawing dead against any ace. The 'variance' continues. Its beyond all realms of numbers and statistics now. Why can't I just get a fair game ffs.
'
So now 263 times, and I'm down overall in show down winnings. That's what the rig does. Those aces hit like 10 outers.
I'll ask the same question someone mistakenly asked TD earlier, thinking he was serious: do you ever fold KK postflop? And not just in obvious cases such as an Ace on board, 4 to a straight or 4 to a flush that misses you?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
Ev is close to worthless because it does not take into account the times you 3 bet 55c, get called by 46 and flop is 566, and you lose a stack which is just what happened to me just then and of course continues to happen.
Allin EV (at least in PT) takes into account how many chips were put in on each street, and your chances of winning the pot at that time.

If you limp with KK, get called by 66, and the pot comes 26Q, and then all the chips go in...if you lose that pot, you're not much below EV. If on the other hand, the chips went in before the flop, then you're well below EV for that hand.

So, yes it does take into account the situation you described (since if you went allin on the flop, you're still significantly ahead).

Edit: it's not, however, always the greatest indicator of "luck" or "rigginess", since if you go allin 35 times with AA in 2NL and win every single one of them, and once in 200NL and lose, then PT/HEM will say you're running below EV, even though you've won a whole lot higher percentage of hands than you should have.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcatz1999
Allin EV (at least in PT) takes into account how many chips were put in on each street, and your chances of winning the pot at that time.

If you limp with KK, get called by 66, and the pot comes 26Q, and then all the chips go in...if you lose that pot, you're not much below EV. If on the other hand, the chips went in before the flop, then you're well below EV for that hand.

So, yes it does take into account the situation you described (since if you went allin on the flop, you're still significantly ahead).
.
If the hand you described happened 100 times, I would not be shown too much below EV despite running horribly by running into sets so many times, correct? So in that regard it does not take into account coolers and all factors of running bad which is the point I'm making, if I understand it correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewill1978
I'll ask the same question someone mistakenly asked TD earlier, thinking he was serious: do you ever fold KK postflop? And not just in obvious cases such as an Ace on board, 4 to a straight or 4 to a flush that misses you?

I can usually fold it to big raises in non 3 bet pots, but most of the losses and frustration comes from 3 bet pots or pre flop shoves, where Im losing most of the time to any Ax, rag straights, sets on medium boards where you cant fold in 3 bet pot or they slow play until your pot committed etc.

Even regardless if I could not fold, the POINT is with KK being such a big favourite I shouldn't have to be folding it that much over a decent sample like that, because it should friggin hold UP most of the time.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-05-2014 at 12:36 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 12:04 PM
This has to be the phoniest thread here. The same prop posters here over and over. Every couple of weeks a new dummy posts here with a sprinkling of real people surely.

Either A the props will discount citing "proof"

or B the poster will have to be a terrible player because although a majority of these props do not play poker, they have a pearl of wisdom to share.

It's like watching a game of 3 card Monty as a toruist and getting swindled in.

Just wondering do you folks get a pop up as such?



Spoiler:

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-05-2014 at 12:35 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
If the hand you described happened 100 times, I would not be shown too much below EV despite running horribly by running into sets so many times, correct? So in that regard it does not take into account coolers and all factors of running bad which is the point I'm making, if I understand it correctly.
Assuming a non-rigged deal, then you would win about 9 of those hands, on average. If the vast majority of the money went in on the flop, then you would be pretty much spot-on EV. If, on the other hand, the majority of the money went in preflop, then you would be way, way under EV. But yes, in that regard, it's like you said, it doesn't factor in coolers since it doesn't put your opponent in a range of cards -- it puts them on the exact 2 cards they have.

The hand I described was much different than the hand you described, though. In your hand, you were still a ~77% favorite after the flop.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
Even when I flop a straight Pokerstars still finds a way to screw me over.
Gee, maybe you should

QUIT PLAYING ON POKERSTARS

you dumb ****.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-05-2014 , 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
Just suffered one of the dirtiest beats ever.

I raise it up with 68ss on the button. Small blind and big blind both call.

Flop comes 579r with 1 diamond. Finally I might actually win a hand today. I make a pot sized bet, both of them come along for the ride.

Turn is a 7d. The big blind jams all in, I fistpumpsnapcall. The SB also pushes all his money in the middle too.

River is the Kd. The SB flips over 2 diamonds. This idiot had called a pot sized bet, then an all in, with a runner runner flush draw. And he made it! Big blind had 78.

Complete joke. Even when I flop a straight Pokerstars still finds a way to screw me over.
you were the one going for a backdoor flush with K5 so what is your problem exactly?
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