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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,503 34.87%
No
5,610 55.85%
Undecided
932 9.28%

03-06-2014 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futballer
otayop, shill or prop? Didn't take you long. Slow day?
I was responding to your first post about 30 minutes after you made it and edited in your second one when I saw it. I know this may seem like some kind of strange magic since you just fart out your ****ty one line posts rapid-fire, but there is in fact the ability to edit posts you've made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by futballer
someone who could regulate and assure a fair deal.
Name some trustworthy ones.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 07:42 PM
Ipoker is an absolute joke.

I have signed up and played 1000 hands on one of their skins. In that time:

- I did not flop a set once.
- I got AA twice. Once everyone folded preflop. Once I got to showdown and had been outdrawn by TT.
- I got KK once. It got to showdown, and was outdrawn by 89ss.
- Both the AA and KK showdowns were heads up on the flop.
- The only good hand I got was a flush, once. No sets or straights. And the flush was against a 30BB shortstack so I didn't get paid much.

Meanwhile the blinds and the ridiculous Ipoker rake slowly grinds me down. Obviously they don't want their sportsbook fishes to get eaten by the sharks so they give me crap cards. It's even more rigged than Pokerstars.

I just can't win on these rigged networks. Something has to be done about this bull****.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futballer
someone who could regulate and assure a fair deal. If this was somehow fair I would eat my own diahrrea


Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
Ipoker is an absolute joke.

I have signed up and played 1000 hands on one of their skins. In that time:

- I did not flop a set once.
- I got AA twice. Once everyone folded preflop. Once I got to showdown and had been outdrawn by TT.
- I got KK once. It got to showdown, and was outdrawn by 89ss.
- Both the AA and KK showdowns were heads up on the flop.
- The only good hand I got was a flush, once. No sets or straights. And the flush was against a 30BB shortstack so I didn't get paid much.

Meanwhile the blinds and the ridiculous Ipoker rake slowly grinds me down. Obviously they don't want their sportsbook fishes to get eaten by the sharks so they give me crap cards. It's even more rigged than Pokerstars.

I just can't win on these rigged networks. Something has to be done about this bull****.
Woah.. one THOUSAND hands??
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futballer
nice omaha rng Pokerstars. ...

talk about a total scam. regulation, where are you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
Oh my, a riggie discovers Omaha, the mac daddy. If you thought variance seemed high in Hold'em...


Welcome to PLO
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltedDonkey




Woah.. one THOUSAND hands??
In 1000 hands you should be dealt pocket pairs 100 times. You should flop a set 1/8 times, so I should have had 12 sets. I had none. That's far beyond any normal tolerance level for randomness and is pretty much proof the deal is screwed by itself. But then add in the only good hand I got at all was a flush and that was vs a 30BB shortstack, and it's confirmed.

Plus there was a hand I know they tried to set me up in. I had AQ, flop came A66, there were 2 callers. I bet out, both called, turn was a Q. I bet out again, both called. The river was a nothing card, a 2 or something. I CHECK FOLDED the river because I knew one of these fish must have a 6 and this was just a setup by Ipoker. Sure enough, one of them bet, the other one called with his weak Qx. But the first guy had 66 for FOUR OF A KIND, while Ipoker had given me top 2 pair. They actually try and **** over the good players the moment they sign up to the god damn site.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 08:04 PM
1000 hands is about 50 pocket pairs.... which means 6 sets but variance in hitting sets is huge..... so it's perfectly normal
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futballer
someone who could regulate and assure a fair deal. If this was somehow fair I would eat my own diahrrea
Do you even know where the Isle of Man is?

About the Isle of Man
The Isle of Man is a long established and modern international financial centre, conveniently located in Europe and offering a wide range of financial services in a well regulated environment.
The Island's political and economic stability, combined with its special arrangements for depositor, investor and policyholder protection, make it the ideal location from which to conduct offshore operations. These operations currently include a range of banking, investment and fund activities conducted by major institutions from around the world, all supervised by the Financial Supervision Commission. Insurance operations are supervised by the Insurance & Pensions Authority. The Island is also a leading company and trust formation and administration centre, through which a variety of international company structures can be set up. Many major legal and accounting firms are represented on the Island to help provide a world class offshore environment.
The Island has been voted the "Best Offshore Financial Services Centre" for four consecutive years. It has also established for itself a leading position in e-commerce in the finance sector.


And don't forget there are already rigges posting about sites now regulated by the good 'ol U S of A

Last edited by J9Suited; 03-06-2014 at 08:14 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfire444
1000 hands is about 50 pocket pairs.... which means 6 sets but variance in hitting sets is huge..... so it's perfectly normal
+ you won't always see flop with a pocket pair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
That's far beyond any normal tolerance level for randomness

Lol? Can you show the calculations you made to come to that conclusion? Ah, you can't, because you don't even know how to do them (Surprise.. you apparently don't even know how to read wiki, otherwise you surely would have looked it up by now).

Sir, why are you babbling out of your ass then?


and is pretty much proof the deal is screwed by itself. But then add in the only good hand I got at all was a flush and that was vs a 30BB shortstack, and it's confirmed.

It's confirmed! Please send your elaborated analysis to the press! There are hundreds of Poker News Websites and brick-and-mortar-magazines that wait for a genius like you showing all that proof.

Last edited by franxic; 03-06-2014 at 08:38 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
I CHECK FOLDED the river because I knew one of these fish must have a 6
goot lay down then.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J9Suited
Do you even know where the Isle of Man is?

About the Isle of Man
The Isle of Man is a long established and modern international financial centre, conveniently located in Europe and offering a wide range of financial services in a well regulated environment.
The Island's political and economic stability, combined with its special arrangements for depositor, investor and policyholder protection, make it the ideal location from which to conduct offshore operations. These operations currently include a range of banking, investment and fund activities conducted by major institutions from around the world, all supervised by the Financial Supervision Commission. Insurance operations are supervised by the Insurance & Pensions Authority. The Island is also a leading company and trust formation and administration centre, through which a variety of international company structures can be set up. Many major legal and accounting firms are represented on the Island to help provide a world class offshore environment.
The Island has been voted the "Best Offshore Financial Services Centre" for four consecutive years. It has also established for itself a leading position in e-commerce in the finance sector.


And don't forget there are already rigges posting about sites now regulated by the good 'ol U S of A

its near the united kingdom and ireland as I know because I will be joined by players from these countries who are magicians
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfire444
1000 hands is about 50 pocket pairs.... which means 6 sets but variance in hitting sets is huge..... so it's perfectly normal
not to mention those times when you hit a set and get little or no action or when you're sitting tall in chips already. (I prefer hitting mine when i'm in need to chip up...lol).
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
In 1000 hands you should be dealt pocket pairs 100 times.
This is false. You will be dealt a pocket pair in 5.88% (78/1326) of your hands. Thus, you should receive, on average, 58.8 pocket pairs per 1,000 hands played.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
You should flop a set 1/8 times, so I should have had 12 sets.
Also false. Given that you hold any two cards of the same rank, there are "50 choose 3" possible flops. This means that the number of possible flops is 19,600.

The number of flops that contain at least one card of your rank (giving you a set, a full house, or quads) is "2 choose 1" x "48 choose 2". This number is 2,256.

Therefore, the odds of flopping at least a third card of your rank when you hold a pocket pair is 2,256 / 19,600 = 11.51%.

When you combine this with the revised expectation of how many pocket pairs you should get in 1,000 hands (58.8), then you should flop, on average, 6.77 sets per 1,000 hands.

NOTE: This assumes that you see a flop with EVERY SINGLE pocket pair that you are dealt, which is obviously ridiculous. Thus, the true expectation is lower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
I had none. That's far beyond any normal tolerance level for randomness
Really?

Again, we will make the EXTREMELY generous assumption that you reach the flop with every pocket pair you are dealt.

With that assumption, your chance of flopping a set on any given hand is 5.88% x 11.51% = 0.677%. Thus, your chance of not flopping a set on any given hand is 100% - 0.677% = 99.323%.

Since each hand is independent, your chances of not making a set on any of a given sample of 1,000 hands is 99.323% ^ 1,000 = 0.112%.

HOWEVER

We have already said that assuming you reach the flop with every pocket pair is completely ridiculous, and I'm sure you agree. Thus, let's dig a little further.

The database I currently have for my play on WSOP New Jersey contains 38,979 hands. In this sample, I have had 2,255 pocket pairs. In the 2,255 hands in which I was dealt pocket pairs, I have seen the flop 1,500 times. This means I saw the flop with a pocket pair 66.5% of the time.

Lets assume that holds up for the sample of 1,000 hands. If so, now my chance to flop a set in any given hand drops to 5.88% * 11.51% * 66.5% = 0.450%. Consequently, the chance of not flopping a set in a 1,000 hand sample rises to (100% - 0.450%)^1,000 = 1.1%!

So, consider the following to events:
(A) You flop a set on the very next hand you play.
(B) You do not flop a single set in the next 1,000 hands you play.

Event (B) is more than twice as likely as event (A). So, next time you DO flop a set, you should post about it here, because that **** was way more rigged than your 1,000 hands without a set.

*

I should actually admit that I made a small mistake in my post. The odds of flopping a set that I gave do not count the times that you flop quads.

Including quads, it would be "2 choose 1" x "49 choose 2" / "50 choose 3" = 12.0%.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-07-2014 at 06:19 AM. Reason: 2 posts merged
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 10:12 PM
What a load of bull****. You only see a flop 67% of the time with a pocket pair? GTFO. I never fold a pocket pair preflop unless I have like 22, and the action goes raise reraise reraise.

Ipoker = rigged.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by franxic
+ you won't always see flop with a pocket pair.
Yeah right xD
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
What a load of bull****. You only see a flop 67% of the time with a pocket pair? GTFO. I never fold a pocket pair preflop unless I have like 22, and the action goes raise reraise reraise.
Yeah, because you folding is the only way you don't see a flop. How about you GTFO?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 10:45 PM
More Ipoker bull****. Was down to final 2 tables of a tourney, I flop a queen high flush. Some idiot shoves all in with Ax on the turn (with the ace high flush draw), binks it on the river. What a load of BS. I never make it to final tables and it's because of crap like this. In about 50 tourneys I have played I've made ONE final table, that's all. These are mostly 90-180 mans. Just rigged BS after rigged BS.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 10:51 PM
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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
What a load of bull****. You only see a flop 67% of the time with a pocket pair? GTFO. I never fold a pocket pair preflop unless I have like 22, and the action goes raise reraise reraise.

Ipoker = rigged.
What about the hands you win preflop? You don't get to see those flops either do you?
LOL

Last edited by NewOldGuy; 03-06-2014 at 11:02 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 11:09 PM
I've had enough of tournaments on all sites. ****ing BS all the time. They take no skill to play either. All they are is a bunch of morons shoving and hoping for the best. It's all about luck. If you get dealt monsters in the right places and avoid the suckouts, or manage to suckout on a couple of people, all of a sudden you're chip leader. Lose that 48/52 flip and you're out. And the donks love them, oh they damn well love them. In real cash game poker they'd get crucified but in tournaments they can act like donks and they've basically got just as much chance of winning the thing as anyone else. And the sites love to help them. That donk mid-stack who is getting close to having to post his round of blinds? He'll get QQ+ when the big blind hits him so he can stay in the tournament donking it up while a solid player like myself will go out.

The cash games are rigged as well but at least you can rebuy there. In a tournament you just pissed 2 hours of your life down the drain just so some donk can get dealt AA 3 times in an orbit and become a massive chip leader. I actually think the sites let me get close to the bubble or close to the FT then knock me out just to wind me up. It's a joke how many times this happens.

The sites like the donks to win the tournaments as they know they'll just lose it all back on the cash game tables or on higher buyin tournaments and so generate more rake. They HATE solid players winning as it's less likely they'll lose the money back.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
What a load of bull****. You only see a flop 67% of the time with a pocket pair? GTFO. I never fold a pocket pair preflop unless I have like 22, and the action goes raise reraise reraise.

Ipoker = rigged.
My VPIP with pocket pairs is 92.48%.

The 33.5% of pocket pairs that did not see a flop:

7.52% of all pocket pairs were folded without putting any money in the pot.

25.2% of all pocket pairs I won the hand without seeing a flop.

0.72% of all pocket pairs I put money in the pot but lost without seeing a flop (i.e. I called a raise and then folded to further pre-flop action, or I raised and then folded to a 3-bet, etc.)

Last edited by TiltedDonkey; 03-06-2014 at 11:23 PM. Reason: In the database I am using for this, my winrate is 6.66bb/100. Could it be because I work for evil poker sites?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
They HATE solid players winning as it's less likely they'll lose the money back.
Winning players keep playing and generate rake.

Losing players for the most part don't see how bad they are and keep on depositing and generating rake.

Why would a site care who does the winning?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwimmerlaike
Winning players keep playing and generate rake.

Losing players for the most part don't see how bad they are and keep on depositing and generating rake.

Why would a site care who does the winning?
No, if fish lose they get pissed off and don't redeposit. The site wants to keep these donks around so lets them win. The site is not your friend. It is run by the donks for the donks, no matter which site you're on (if we're talking about the big names).

Why do you think there's so many tournaments on Pokerstars? It's because they can rig it more easily. As tournaments require no skill beyond 'I'm going to wait until I get Ax or a pocket pair then shove my stack in the middle' it's easy for the sites to manipulate them to ensure the donks win. How? Just give them more premium hands, of course. And because after you lose to said donk you're out of the tournament, you never get to build up a massive sample of hand on the donk and realise he's always getting the good hands and winning every flip. When you get A9, the donk will have AT. The sites make it so. If you have AQ he'll wake up with AK. If you have TT, he'll have JJ, guaranteed.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
No, if fish lose they get pissed off and don't redeposit.
You are apparently an exception.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatEveryDay
No, if fish lose they get pissed off and don't redeposit.

But if the regs lose, they'll get even more pissed off and be even less likely to redeposit.

The site wants to keep these donks around

True.

so lets them win.

True, since the game of poker does that naturally. If it didn't, the game wouldn't be able to be played for money. That's why you don't see a lot of high stakes online chess gambling, for example.

The site is not your friend.

True.

It is run by the donks

No, it's run by very successful businessmen.

for the donks,

Yes, but that doesn't mean anything.

no matter which site you're on (if we're talking about the big names).

Why do you think there's so many tournaments on Pokerstars?

Because people like them, and Poker Stars charges something called an entry fee on each and every one, allowing them to make money.

It's because they can rig it more easily.

How so?

As tournaments require no skill beyond 'I'm going to wait until I get Ax or a pocket pair then shove my stack in the middle' it's easy for the sites to manipulate them to ensure the donks win.

But if tournaments require no skill, then there can be no donks. Do you see why?

How? Just give them more premium hands, of course.

Except that you would easily be able to prove this by statistical analysis.

And because after you lose to said donk you're out of the tournament, you never get to build up a massive sample of hand on the donk and realise he's always getting the good hands and winning every flip. When you get A9, the donk will have AT. The sites make it so. If you have AQ he'll wake up with AK. If you have TT, he'll have JJ, guaranteed.

If this is true, you should present some data that illustrates it. Then, the rest of us will believe it too.
.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-06-2014 , 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
You are apparently an exception.

I am not a fish. I am probably the best player on Pokerstars microlimits currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltedDonkey
But if the regs lose, they'll get even more pissed off and be even less likely to redeposit.
No because a lot of regs have been brainwashed by site shills into thinking it's variance. Only a few open minded people see through the lies.

Quote:
True, since the game of poker does that naturally. If it didn't, the game wouldn't be able to be played for money. That's why you don't see a lot of high stakes online chess gambling, for example.
If the site dealt a non-rigged game, the donk would lose more money than they win. This doesn't happen. Solid players lose more money while 80% VPIP donks rake in the chips.

Quote:
Because people like them, and Poker Stars charges something called an entry fee on each and every one, allowing them to make money.
They make money on cash games too. Yet whenever Pokerstars runs an advertisement, it's always about their latest tournaments. They'd prefer people to play those than cash games because they can easily rig them to ensure they get maximum rake.

Quote:
But if tournaments require no skill, then there can be no donks. Do you see why?
There's donks everywhere. They infest every single poker site on the internet. And Pokerstars loves these donks and will protect their bankrolls. They'll shove when there's still 70BB effective stacks and they'll either never get called or when they do they'll suckout on the callers or they'll have a premium hand.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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