Yeah, she wanted to sexor him for babies and one night he was drunk and purposed it and she said no, as she was pretty sure that was not gonna work.

I'm guessing he didn't. The plan was to send Ned to the wall as an exile, it seemed like everybdoy was on board with that, but Joffrey went full ****** and executed him because that's what Joffrey does. I seem to recall Cersei being shocked when Joffrey said execute and attempting to reason with him. So it appears to be something Joffrey decided on a whim despite all the advice he had been given.

Executing Ned was as dumb thing to do from a strategy standpoint.

varys knowing about the Joff-offing is pretty likely. He would totally get behind it for the good of the realm.
I don't think he knew poor dead end was gonna get got for confessing. seemed to me that Joffrey acted alone on that one

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems to me you start off by assuming Tywin is in on it (otherwise why would he need to pin it on anybody?) and from there you conclude he must be in on it. Plus we don't know who is bribing witnesses, could be anyone.

I'm repeating myself but I think the interaction with Oberyn is the only indication Tywin is involved so far. The question is if Tywin was planning to kill Joffrey why would he want Olenna in on it, seems like an unnecessary risk.

I like an Olenna/LF combo. It has fewer moving parts and makes the most sense to me right now. As for why Olenna would let LF in on it, maybe it was LF approaching Olenna with a plot to gain himself another pin on the ladder. And I think LF's connections and network in KL would be helpful for an elaborate plot like this either way.

Hi

Everyone seepin?

We should rename this thread to the exact name as the bookreaders thread for funsies.

Any chance Tywin knew about the Joff poison, an dis gathering witnesses to make them look bad/denounce them? Maybe he will come through with proof that makes him innocent and the witnesses Tywin is calling will then look like liars(assuming they are going to fit a story to please Tywin).

People keep saying Tywin is going to have a hand in Tyrion trial, and this seems like a possibility. Which makes some more sense in bringing in the bi dude.

I doubt Tywin would be inviting Oberon onto the judging panel if he wanted to rig the trial against Tyrion, as there are dozens of alternatives he'd have way more control over. Oberon strikes me as the kind of guy who's going to make up his own mind and give an honest ruling, and Tyrion will surely argue his own case brilliantly. The invitation makes political sense though, as it's a further step towards peace with the Dorn crew, so it still passes the "does this benefit Tywin?" test.

I'm inclined to believe Tywin in this case; I suspect he really does want to know the truth and has chosen this guy because he expects an unbiased opinion from him.

Whether or not Tywin is involved I think he knows Tyrion well enough to know it's not him and it's not like he's going to trust Oberyn's opinion over his own either way.

Anyone know who the girl was that Ramsey was hunting ?

she was one of the two who pretended to seduce Reek before Ramsey cut his dick off. The girl who shot her was the other one. Presumably they're both Bolton clan?

Ramsey has been seen slaughtering his own crew before, like when he faked helping Theon escape, he had his men track him down, then showed up and killed his own men to look like a hero to Theon.

Dude makes Joffrey look like Mother Teresa.

It was not the same actress. I am not sure though if they are supposed to be the same character (not sure if they ever told us the first girl's name).

There would be better Patsies I agree, but he also might be doing it for diplomatic reasons. Mending fences with Dorne should be a priority if he wants to stay in power long. He knows he needs a powerful ally with Dany and WW eyeing KL up

Different character.

Having 2 sons known as kingslayers can't be good for the Lannister legacy. Pretty sure Tyrion will walk...

Thanks. I only had the thought after rewatching that episode. I couldn't think how it would help Varys anyway, but I don't get his angle for pleading so hard with Ned to confess, either. It wasn't going to make peace vs. Stannis, probably had no bearing on Sansa's life, and you'd think he is smart enough to know Joffrey might go Joffrey.

Mainly wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything about it in s2 or s3, as Varys started to seem less pure.

Have we solved the murder yet? I'm still in the camp of Littlefinger/Fool/Olenna with Sansa as the unknowing delivery method and scapegoat. We all know that Tyrion got the blame purely by accident, and that Sansa looks guilty as hell for fleeing the scene. Though she's "safe" now.

What I can't understand is why Olenna and/or Marg would choose this particular time to assassinate the King. Surely their standing with the crown would be better had they waited at least until the marriage was consummated or a son had been born to Marg. Perhaps LF's plan needed to run its course at that exact time?

Varys does what he does for the realm. Ned confessing makes for the most stable scenario coming from a powder keg of a situation. Sansa and Aria would have been kept as wards, and the Starks would have continued to rule Winterfell. Joffrey was newly king at that point, and no one had any clue how demented he was. With the north staying out of it at the very least, and possibly aiding the crown (after all they'd have their wards...), the war would have likely looked more like a squashed rebellion, instead of an all out war.

LF with Olenna makes sense. The cup came off a table near her, and LF pretty much has to be in on it, or at least have knowledge it was going down, based on the Sansa thing and what we heard from him. It would be a pretty smooth play by Tyrion if he pulled it off in broad daylight knowing he'd never be prosecuted for it, though.

Yeah, I guess. Would Robb really just go back to Winterfell because they *allowed* his dad to take the black for the rest of his life based on a lie? And there was always going to be Stannis to deal with anyway, right?

I can't figure it. Whoever offered Padrig a knight-ship has to be involved but who else has that power besides Tywin, Oleena and maybe a few of the other rogue kings?

Yeah, I think so. Robb wasn't a child, but he wasn't quite a man yet-- if Ned is still alive, he doesn't rage so hard, since Ned would council him from afar. Also, if Ned is shown "mercy", the threat of harm to his sisters is conditional on him falling into line. When they lop off Ned's head, there are no clear conditions, and his sisters are in danger either way.

As for Stannis, I have to say, I don't fully recall the order in which events happened. When did Ned send the raven to Dragonstone, et al? Even if the Stannis and Renly each call their banners, there's a chance that less houses rally behind them, since the crown doesn't appear to be resting on a maniac's head, and more importantly there isn't a northern front for the Lannisters to be weakened by. Maybe their banners still rally, but do the Tyrells still join the fight?

WTF? Clip?

How do I not remember something like that?!