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Air Grievances about BruceZ Getting Called Racist ITT: New Posts Arriving All the Time!

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04-10-2015 , 01:38 PM

#1926

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,942

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

It turns out that their racism also causes problems, and they don't seem to know it.

Indeed. I'm sure most of us cause problems without even knowing it - discussion is good for helping with that.

but you're still deliberately using language in a way that fails to communicate meaning and frequently causes a problem. Whether you do it because you think that helps deal with racism isn't so clear.

04-10-2015 , 01:39 PM

#1927

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorn7

OK, so I will grant that what I define as my learned biases and you might define as racism has consequences, some and hey maybe all of which, are negative. Given that you abhor these consequences, wouldn't it make more sense for you to try and educate me and bring me closer to how you think?

I would think it would but it seems that most posters here would rather just point things/people out as racist and get the whole gang together to let the rahrahtrollingparty begin.

The offer stands to you too: pick a post of mine where I was bad in my discussion of racism and rewrite it appropriately.

04-10-2015 , 01:46 PM

#1928

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

The offer stands to you too: pick a post of mine where I was bad in my discussion of racism and rewrite it appropriately.

Even phrasing this as such intimates that you never think you are wrong and are more interested in identifying things/people you consider racist and not in attempting to make them less so.

04-10-2015 , 01:48 PM

#1929

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

OK, so I don't know how to make people less racist. Perhaps you can share your ideas by taking a sample conversation and showing how I could have done better than just identifying racism.

04-10-2015 , 01:54 PM

#1930

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

OK, so I don't know how to make people less racist. Perhaps you can share your ideas by taking a sample conversation and showing how I could have done better than just identifying racism.

No thanks because I know how this ends. Have seen it about 100x in this thread and others.

Its OK though. This has been one type of valuable education for me anyway so for that I thank you and the others.

Shorn

04-10-2015 , 02:00 PM

#1931

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

OK, how should I use language instead?

04-10-2015 , 02:01 PM

#1932

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

I cannot believe FoldN is going to back to the "that post isnt racist and, besides, if it is the poster isnt a racist because they didnt believe it and were playacting" argument.

04-10-2015 , 02:06 PM

#1933

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,942

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

OK, how should I use language instead?

Depends. For starters, what are you trying to achieve?

Sent from my XT1021 using 2+2 Forums

04-10-2015 , 02:06 PM

#1934

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffee

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/...nd_connotation
A word's extension is the collection of things it refers to; its intension is what it implies about the things it is used to refer to. So, the denotation or extension of "dog" is just the collection of all the dogs that exist. The connotation or intension of "dog" is (something like) "four-legged canine carnivore."

The issue isn’t the extension of the term; it’s that the intension of the term ‘racist’ varies widely. So just define the term and your troubles with whiners will go away, or they will.

A racist is:

A racist is someone who has similar thoughts to what Duffee has posted on this forum.

04-10-2015 , 02:08 PM

#1935

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

So not one single member of Team Bruce wants to offer an opinion about me being accused of making a racist post? Nobody has any thoughts about that at all?

04-10-2015 , 02:10 PM

#1936

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianNit

Let's define "personal attack" as inappropriate use of an ad hominem argument. It can be appropriate use of such an argument to label someone as a racist within the context of a discussion about Ferguson, but it would probably be inappropriate to use "you're a racist" as a way to attack the credibility of someone's opinions on peak oil.

I think that interpretation is probably what is most in keeping with the spirit of the forum rule.

No, that's really stupid, but I don't think you're stupid.

04-10-2015 , 02:11 PM

#1937

duffee

banned

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,218

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

So not one single member of Team Bruce wants to offer an opinion about me being accused of making a racist post? Nobody has any thoughts about that at all?

That’s how leftists roll:
“I don’t think the burden should be on me. The burden should be on him. He’s the one I’ve alleged has not paid any taxes.” –Sen. Harry Reid

04-10-2015 , 02:14 PM

#1938

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Categorizing leftists with a broad brush is hurtful and a bannable offense in alpha, just FYI

04-10-2015 , 02:17 PM

#1939

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffee

That’s how leftists roll:
“I don’t think the burden should be on me. The burden should be on him. He’s the one I’ve alleged has not paid any taxes.” –Sen. Harry Reid

Not really sure how that is supposed to relate to anything anybody posted itt about anything. I'm just asking you to express an opinion.

04-10-2015 , 02:24 PM

#1940

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

So not one single member of Team Bruce wants to offer an opinion about me being accused of making a racist post? Nobody has any thoughts about that at all?

Other than the fact you are being insincere, we don't have time to defend every poster who has been falsely accused of being racist. We're instead asking for the childish behavior of name calling to stop, so that there can be a place to have more adult discussion. It's difficult when the moderator of the forum where it should stop won't admit it is a personal attack, even though the only people who should agree with that post on stromfront.

04-10-2015 , 02:25 PM

#1941

TheDuker

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,388

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorn7

This is such bull****. You guys all want to pretend like racists are identified, mocked, and chased away. The reality is that they are identified, mocked , AND ENGAGED. Maybe not with the tone you approve of, but if they're not banned, they are engaged and questioned. Every time. Look at how Duffee has been engaged in this thread. There are substantial back-and-forth discussions happening all the time, and if you have to wade through some bickering and noise, too bad.

In fact, MrWookie just tried to engage you on this topic. Calmly, thoughtfully, seriously. Your response? "No thanks because I know how this ends." LOL

04-10-2015 , 02:28 PM

#1942

duffee

banned

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,218

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

Not really sure how that is supposed to relate to anything anybody posted itt about anything. I'm just asking you to express an opinion.

My opinion is that you’ll be accused of being a racist and per the rules of The Inquisition you’ll be required to defend yourself against the accusation. You have to watch yourself, though. For example, if you deny being a racist, that’s prima facie evidence that you are a racist since what racists do is deny racists exist. Godspeed.

04-10-2015 , 02:29 PM

#1943

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDuker

I guess our definitions of engagement are different as well. In my opinion, engagement does not simply mean asking question after question until a response is given where someone can come in and say "See, told you that you were a racist!". Engagement also means that both parties can and maybe are willing to admit that they could be wrong about something.

But again, I guess we agree to disagree which is fine.

04-10-2015 , 02:30 PM

#1944

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoldnDark

No, that's really stupid, but I don't think you're stupid.

Why is it stupid?

04-10-2015 , 02:40 PM

#1945

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianNit

Why is it stupid?

Good question. It's stupid because whether or not that idea is stupid is what we should be talking about, not my opinion of you.

04-10-2015 , 02:40 PM

#1946

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorn7

One method of education is the Socratic method. If you are wrong about racism and need illumination in that area, one way to educate you would be to get you to assert a thesis about racism, then ask you a series of questions that eventually lead you to contradict your original premise, leading to the conclusion that you were wrong.

04-10-2015 , 02:40 PM

#1947

DrChesspain

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anais

I'm still waiting on #teamSMP and #SMP2ndStringCheerleaders to turn on cheezelawl for his vicious attack on boxers...

04-10-2015 , 02:50 PM

#1948

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Depends. For starters, what are you trying to achieve?

Sent from my XT1021 using 2+2 Forums

I am asking you how I should post so I can achieve what you want me to

04-10-2015 , 02:52 PM

#1949

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,942

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDuker

Some truth but far from the whole truth. Even allowing wookie is genuinely trying to engage; his use of language, one-sided interpretations at every stage and the behavior of the regulars make engagement ridiculously hard.