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Air Grievances about BruceZ Getting Called Racist ITT: New Posts Arriving All the Time! Air Grievances about BruceZ Getting Called Racist ITT: New Posts Arriving All the Time!

04-10-2015 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
It turns out that their racism also causes problems, and they don't seem to know it.
Indeed. I'm sure most of us cause problems without even knowing it - discussion is good for helping with that.

but you're still deliberately using language in a way that fails to communicate meaning and frequently causes a problem. Whether you do it because you think that helps deal with racism isn't so clear.
04-10-2015 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
OK, so I will grant that what I define as my learned biases and you might define as racism has consequences, some and hey maybe all of which, are negative. Given that you abhor these consequences, wouldn't it make more sense for you to try and educate me and bring me closer to how you think?

I would think it would but it seems that most posters here would rather just point things/people out as racist and get the whole gang together to let the rahrahtrollingparty begin.
The offer stands to you too: pick a post of mine where I was bad in my discussion of racism and rewrite it appropriately.
04-10-2015 , 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
The offer stands to you too: pick a post of mine where I was bad in my discussion of racism and rewrite it appropriately.
Even phrasing this as such intimates that you never think you are wrong and are more interested in identifying things/people you consider racist and not in attempting to make them less so.
04-10-2015 , 01:48 PM
OK, so I don't know how to make people less racist. Perhaps you can share your ideas by taking a sample conversation and showing how I could have done better than just identifying racism.
04-10-2015 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
OK, so I don't know how to make people less racist. Perhaps you can share your ideas by taking a sample conversation and showing how I could have done better than just identifying racism.
No thanks because I know how this ends. Have seen it about 100x in this thread and others.

Its OK though. This has been one type of valuable education for me anyway so for that I thank you and the others.

Shorn
04-10-2015 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Indeed. I'm sure most of us cause problems without even knowing it - discussion is good for helping with that.

but you're still deliberately using language in a way that fails to communicate meaning and frequently causes a problem. Whether you do it because you think that helps deal with racism isn't so clear.
OK, how should I use language instead?
04-10-2015 , 02:01 PM
I cannot believe FoldN is going to back to the "that post isnt racist and, besides, if it is the poster isnt a racist because they didnt believe it and were playacting" argument.
04-10-2015 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
OK, how should I use language instead?
Depends. For starters, what are you trying to achieve?

Sent from my XT1021 using 2+2 Forums
04-10-2015 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffee
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/...nd_connotation
A word's extension is the collection of things it refers to; its intension is what it implies about the things it is used to refer to. So, the denotation or extension of "dog" is just the collection of all the dogs that exist. The connotation or intension of "dog" is (something like) "four-legged canine carnivore."
The issue isn’t the extension of the term; it’s that the intension of the term ‘racist’ varies widely. So just define the term and your troubles with whiners will go away, or they will.

A racist is:
A racist is someone who has similar thoughts to what Duffee has posted on this forum.
04-10-2015 , 02:08 PM
So not one single member of Team Bruce wants to offer an opinion about me being accused of making a racist post? Nobody has any thoughts about that at all?
04-10-2015 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
Let's define "personal attack" as inappropriate use of an ad hominem argument. It can be appropriate use of such an argument to label someone as a racist within the context of a discussion about Ferguson, but it would probably be inappropriate to use "you're a racist" as a way to attack the credibility of someone's opinions on peak oil.

I think that interpretation is probably what is most in keeping with the spirit of the forum rule.
No, that's really stupid, but I don't think you're stupid.
04-10-2015 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
So not one single member of Team Bruce wants to offer an opinion about me being accused of making a racist post? Nobody has any thoughts about that at all?
That’s how leftists roll:
“I don’t think the burden should be on me. The burden should be on him. He’s the one I’ve alleged has not paid any taxes.” –Sen. Harry Reid
04-10-2015 , 02:14 PM
Categorizing leftists with a broad brush is hurtful and a bannable offense in alpha, just FYI
04-10-2015 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffee
That’s how leftists roll:
“I don’t think the burden should be on me. The burden should be on him. He’s the one I’ve alleged has not paid any taxes.” –Sen. Harry Reid
Not really sure how that is supposed to relate to anything anybody posted itt about anything. I'm just asking you to express an opinion.
04-10-2015 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
So not one single member of Team Bruce wants to offer an opinion about me being accused of making a racist post? Nobody has any thoughts about that at all?
Other than the fact you are being insincere, we don't have time to defend every poster who has been falsely accused of being racist. We're instead asking for the childish behavior of name calling to stop, so that there can be a place to have more adult discussion. It's difficult when the moderator of the forum where it should stop won't admit it is a personal attack, even though the only people who should agree with that post on stromfront.
04-10-2015 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
OK, so I will grant that what I define as my learned biases and you might define as racism has consequences, some and hey maybe all of which, are negative. Given that you abhor these consequences, wouldn't it make more sense for you to try and educate me and bring me closer to how you think?

I would think it would but it seems that most posters here would rather just point things/people out as racist and get the whole gang together to let the rahrahtrollingparty begin.
This is such bull****. You guys all want to pretend like racists are identified, mocked, and chased away. The reality is that they are identified, mocked , AND ENGAGED. Maybe not with the tone you approve of, but if they're not banned, they are engaged and questioned. Every time. Look at how Duffee has been engaged in this thread. There are substantial back-and-forth discussions happening all the time, and if you have to wade through some bickering and noise, too bad.

In fact, MrWookie just tried to engage you on this topic. Calmly, thoughtfully, seriously. Your response? "No thanks because I know how this ends." LOL
04-10-2015 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Not really sure how that is supposed to relate to anything anybody posted itt about anything. I'm just asking you to express an opinion.
My opinion is that you’ll be accused of being a racist and per the rules of The Inquisition you’ll be required to defend yourself against the accusation. You have to watch yourself, though. For example, if you deny being a racist, that’s prima facie evidence that you are a racist since what racists do is deny racists exist. Godspeed.
04-10-2015 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuker
This is such bull****. You guys all want to pretend like racists are identified, mocked, and chased away. The reality is that they are identified, mocked , AND ENGAGED. Maybe not with the tone you approve of, but if they're not banned, they are engaged and questioned. Every time. Look at how Duffee has been engaged in this thread. There are substantial back-and-forth discussions happening all the time, and if you have to wade through some bickering and noise, too bad.

In fact, MrWookie just tried to engage you on this topic. Calmly, thoughtfully, seriously. Your response? "No thanks because I know how this ends." LOL
I guess our definitions of engagement are different as well. In my opinion, engagement does not simply mean asking question after question until a response is given where someone can come in and say "See, told you that you were a racist!". Engagement also means that both parties can and maybe are willing to admit that they could be wrong about something.

But again, I guess we agree to disagree which is fine.
04-10-2015 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark
No, that's really stupid, but I don't think you're stupid.
Why is it stupid?
04-10-2015 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
Why is it stupid?
Good question. It's stupid because whether or not that idea is stupid is what we should be talking about, not my opinion of you.
04-10-2015 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
OK, so I will grant that what I define as my learned biases and you might define as racism has consequences, some and hey maybe all of which, are negative. Given that you abhor these consequences, wouldn't it make more sense for you to try and educate me and bring me closer to how you think?
One method of education is the Socratic method. If you are wrong about racism and need illumination in that area, one way to educate you would be to get you to assert a thesis about racism, then ask you a series of questions that eventually lead you to contradict your original premise, leading to the conclusion that you were wrong.
04-10-2015 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anais
I'm still waiting on #teamSMP and #SMP2ndStringCheerleaders to turn on cheezelawl for his vicious attack on boxers...
04-10-2015 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Depends. For starters, what are you trying to achieve?

Sent from my XT1021 using 2+2 Forums
I am asking you how I should post so I can achieve what you want me to
04-10-2015 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuker
This is such bull****. You guys all want to pretend like racists are identified, mocked, and chased away. The reality is that they are identified, mocked , AND ENGAGED. Maybe not with the tone you approve of, but if they're not banned, they are engaged and questioned. Every time. Look at how Duffee has been engaged in this thread. There are substantial back-and-forth discussions happening all the time, and if you have to wade through some bickering and noise, too bad.

In fact, MrWookie just tried to engage you on this topic. Calmly, thoughtfully, seriously. Your response? "No thanks because I know how this ends." LOL
Some truth but far from the whole truth. Even allowing wookie is genuinely trying to engage; his use of language, one-sided interpretations at every stage and the behavior of the regulars make engagement ridiculously hard.
04-10-2015 , 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark
Other than the fact you are being insincere, we don't have time to defend every poster who has been falsely accused of being racist. We're instead asking for the childish behavior of name calling to stop, so that there can be a place to have more adult discussion. It's difficult when the moderator of the forum where it should stop won't admit it is a personal attack, even though the only people who should agree with that post on stromfront.
Falsely accused racists are off topic ITT.

      
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