Air Grievances about BruceZ Getting Called Racist ITT: New Posts Arriving All the Time! - Page 74 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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Air Grievances about BruceZ Getting Called Racist ITT: New Posts Arriving All the Time!

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04-10-2015 , 03:00 AM

#1826

Shame Trolly !!!1!

Neo-Gorean

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4,847

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

... I don't want racist (or any similar word) added to the profanity filter. Not just don't want it added I'm against it being added...

Dude, I asked for what peeps wanted to happen... and you tell me something you want not to happen

Can you think of anything you would actually like to happen ?

04-10-2015 , 03:11 AM

#1827

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

Dude, I asked for what peeps wanted to happen... and you tell me something you want not to happen

Can you think of anything you would actually like to happen ?

you said

Quote:

That's not really being fair to the SMPers (and fellow travelers).

They want what BruceZ wanted... they wanna effectively, if not literally, add the R-word to the profanity filter. They want posters who use the R-word to be subject to mod action, including perma-bans. They want the admins to back all this up as explicit policy.

You are wrong. I do not want any of that. At least not beyond what there already is.

You will not find anything that SMPers want in that vein because it's a nonsense idea invented by posters like Fly.

04-10-2015 , 05:15 AM

#1828

BrianTheMick2

Long way to go and a short time to get there.

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 19,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

I don't know of a threat to dox pvn.

Nor do you it seems

You have to read between the lines!

Bruce sent an angry PM to pvn and later some other screen names mentioned doxxing and Bruce in a thread.

Coincidence?!? I think not! This is clear-cut proof! There is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between people mentioning that they are concerned that someone might dox and that person threatening to dox!!!

04-10-2015 , 05:22 AM

#1829

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoldnDark

How is this so complicated? Just admit calling someone a racist is an insult. Seriously, how can you believe it's not?? You don't do you? I'm being trolled. If it's not, why should idiot or ahole be considered an insult? Try selling that to anybody. "Serriously guy, I don't mean this as an insult, but you said some really stupid and mean things here in this post, see? I can prove it. See? So I don't mean this as an insult, just as a description of you. You're an idiot and an ahole. No offense."

Wookie's one-liner response was probably unhelpful, so let me try to be more helpful. Calling someone a racist can be intended as a statement of fact. "Cliven Bundy is racist" is a position that can be derived from analyzing what Cliven Bundy has said. That statement is not an insult. It is the truth. Calling someone a racist shouldn't be considered an insult if you have evidence to support that claim.

04-10-2015 , 05:29 AM

#1830

BrianTheMick2

Long way to go and a short time to get there.

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 19,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anais

except it was just discussed a few posts previously, wherein foldn revealed that the threat came via PM, so it's a little difficult for others to, say, quote it for cheeze

Pvn posted the pm. It is of the quite threatening "stop being mean to my screen name or I will start being mean to your screen name" vein.

Very serious allegations that are almost EXACTLY the same as threatening to dox someone!

In case it wasn't clear, I was making fun of all of us discussing this as if it were a highly important political topic in the post you responded to.

04-10-2015 , 06:38 AM

#1831

BrianTheMick2

Long way to go and a short time to get there.

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 19,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianNit

Shouldn't be considered slanderous if it is factual.

It still carries, and is supposed to carry, negative connotations. "Clive Bundy is a racist and we are inviting him over for brunch because we find him to be pleasant" would get you some strange stares.

(Anxiously awaiting Fly's highly emotional response that I am vigorously defending something or going to bat for something else)

04-10-2015 , 07:09 AM

#1832

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,090

So, like we were trying to get at, and let's not SMP it up here in a deep dive into the meaning of the word insult(lol you people)...

What do you want, again?

04-10-2015 , 07:46 AM

#1833

Leo_Trollstoy

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

Can you think of anything you would actually like to happen ?

In other words: why the **** are you people here?

04-10-2015 , 07:55 AM

#1834

Anais

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6,663

Rather, what have you all been after since September of last year?

04-10-2015 , 08:10 AM

#1835

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Chez doesn't want the word racist banned. He just wants to wistfully muse about racism for hundreds of posts while saying nothing, SMP style, and then whine when racist posts are called racist.

04-10-2015 , 08:21 AM

#1836

Anais

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6,663

We'll have to take your word for it, since cheezelawl is incapable of answering a question

04-10-2015 , 08:31 AM

#1837

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianNit

If I have evidence you are a hateful fat bastard, would calling you a hateful fat bastard be an insult? Should that sort of personal attack be allowed in the main forum?

Last edited by FoldnDark; 04-10-2015 at 08:36 AM.

04-10-2015 , 08:33 AM

#1838

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo_Trollstoy

In other words: why the **** are you people here?

I can't speak for everyone, but I would like the rules to be enforced in the main forum so that there is a modicum of a chance for healthy political discourse.

04-10-2015 , 08:37 AM

#1839

adios

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,540

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo_Trollstoy

In other words: why the **** are you people here?

Why are you here.

04-10-2015 , 08:40 AM

#1840

Shame Trolly !!!1!

Neo-Gorean

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4,847

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

... You will not find anything that SMPers want in that vein because it's a nonsense idea invented by posters like Fly.

0-2.

So... leaving aside all things that you don't wanna see happen, including those purportedly invented by FlyWf ... is there anything, anything at all, you would like to see happen?

04-10-2015 , 08:51 AM

#1841

Shame Trolly !!!1!

Neo-Gorean

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4,847

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoldnDark

I can't speak for everyone, but I would like the rules to be enforced in the main forum so that there is a modicum of a chance for healthy political discourse.

First of all, the rules are being enforced over in Alta. The problem is you see the R-word is an unqualified insult, while others don't. Others see it as a descriptive term... see above.

Two, what makes "healthy political discourse" impossible is all this whining and derailing over the R-Word. Censoring the entire conversations about race... which is basically what you are suggesting, isn't an example of "healthy political discourse".

Are you willing to even discuss the real problem... which is all this whining and derailing? Or are you only actually here to do just that: whine and derail?

04-10-2015 , 08:51 AM

#1842

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 38,355

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoldnDark

I can't speak for everyone, but I would like the rules to be enforced in the main forum so that there is a modicum of a chance for healthy political discourse.

They why don't you take it up in ATF? On in politics alpha? lol, what do you expect to accomplish by tone policing the one forum that designed to be a free-for-all?

Better yet, why not go back to SMP?

04-10-2015 , 08:53 AM

#1843

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffee

I don’t know. The only stuff I recall reading were regressions, probably based on accountability studies, though.

Nah. The best way to get people to trust in the fairness of the justice system is to subject them to biased and inequitable treatment.

Lol, you are good at making me play the straight man.

04-10-2015 , 08:56 AM

#1844

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

0-2.

So... leaving aside all things that you don't wanna see happen, including those purportedly invented by FlyWf ... is there anything, anything at all, you would like to see happen?

I've already answered. If we're talking about how Politics forums on 2+2 are modded then I've said I have a different preference but no problem with the way wookie mods and no claim my preference would be a better approach.

What would you like see happen?

Edit: A minor change I'd like to see is if forum mods are posting as a mod rather than as a poster then they should indicate they are doing so. (That's not particular to P).

Last edited by chezlaw; 04-10-2015 at 09:05 AM.

04-10-2015 , 08:59 AM

#1845

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

Unqualified insult? So the rules about attacking the post and not the poster are reserved for cases where the insult is unqualified? It's then perfectly fine for Dibs to call Dids fat over in alta? Of course not.

Whining and derailing will always happen when people disagree on things, especially politics and religion. They happen less when people attack the post, not the poster. Why else is that a rule?

04-10-2015 , 09:07 AM

#1846

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoldnDark

If I have evidence you are a hateful fat bastard, would calling you a hateful fat bastard be an insult? Should that sort of personal attack be allowed in the main forum?

If it were up to me, it would be allowed, but I do not make the rules.

04-10-2015 , 09:09 AM

#1847

Shame Trolly !!!1!

Neo-Gorean

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 4,847

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

...What would you like see happen?

#1 preference

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

... completely solve the problem by having a sticky specifically state that while in other contexts the R-word is an insult, ITF it's officially considered neutral shorthand for "I feel what you posted is racially problematic, let's talk it out". Of course, whining and derailing regarding this would now be against the rules...

#2 preference

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

... make posting "you're racist" against the rules... but at the same time lobby that any whining or derailing about posts of "that's racist" are equally against the rules...

#3 preference

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shame Trolly !!!1!

... the R-word is forbidden, however the newly coined word 'Ifwypiao' is always OK to use. Again, whining and derailing regarding this is now against the rules...

The common theme here is that both "sides" get what they want. The whiners and derailers don't have to read "insults" any more, and the rest of us don't have to endure the whiners and derailers whining and derailing.

04-10-2015 , 09:10 AM

#1848

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoldnDark

I can't speak for everyone, but I would like the rules to be enforced in the main forum so that there is a modicum of a chance for healthy political discourse.

Race relations are the single most important thread running through American history. A US-centric forum can't possibly have a healthy political discourse if you are too limited in your ability to talk about what is and isn't racist.

04-10-2015 , 09:15 AM

#1849

FoldnDark

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,930

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

I may take it up in ATF. But for now it's much more fun to watch you guys stumble and twist your minds into believing calling someone something you revile so much shouldn't be considered an insult. Next up, telling a woman she's beautiful isn't a compliment.