Interesting info from National Indian Gaming Commission FAQ:
http://www.nigc.gov/About_Us/Frequen...Questions.aspx

Do Indian individuals pay taxes?

Indians are subject to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) code and pay taxes on the same basis as any other citizen of the United States subject to minor differences. While gaming profits generated by the tribes are not taxed at the tribal level, any payments of those profits in the form of per capita payments to tribal members are considered taxable income under the IRS code.

What is the role of the state government in Indian tribes?

State governments have no control or authority over Indian tribes unless specifically authorized by Congress.

Criminal Laws and Penalties
http://www.nigc.gov/Laws_Regulations...Penalties.aspx

The Indian Gaming Regulatory Act includes three criminal statutes codified in Title 18 of the United States Code, Crimes and Criminal Procedures and Chapter 53, Indians. These provisions ensure that crimes involving gaming and casinos that occur on Indian lands are punishable in federal courts.

• 18 USC § 1166 Gambling in Indian country
• 18 USC § 1167 Theft from gaming establishments on Indian lands
• 18 USC § 1168 Theft by officers or employees of gaming establishments on Indian lands

they are their own entity and their own little city. that's why they have their own police and you go to indian hard rock jail if you do something silly.

I'm gonna win tomorrows donkament. just letting you know.

The Seminole have their own government and laws, similar to states. If you violate a Seminole law, you are subject to their legal system (and their prison system is applicable). If you violate a Federal law on Indian territory, you go through the US Federal legal system and Federal jails.

FYP.

And that is because...it is included in Chapter 25 INDIANS of the U.S. Code. Note that the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act is part of Chapter 25, so don't say that the three statutes of Title 18 also apply. They only apply because they are specified under Chapter 25 as applicable to Indian tribes. Chapter 25 specifies what part of U.S. Code applies to Indians and Indian tribes (mostly just what is contained in Chapter 25). Other Federal law does not apply.

Note that in many states, state criminal laws apply to crimes committed on Indian lands by non-Indians. However, this is only true under the terms of state-tribal compacts in those states.

It is true in Florida under the compact with the Seminole tribe. Generally, non-Indians do not end up in Seminole jail, except maybe as a holding cell until turned over to FL state police.

With reference to Title 18, I was just showing that the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act does cover employee theft, etc.

Here is info from the Bureau of Indian Affairs FAQ that seems to suggest that all Federal laws apply to Indians unless Congress provides otherwise (instead of saying that the specific Federal Laws that apply to Indians are listed in Title 25):

Do laws that apply to non-Indians also apply to Indians?

Yes. As U.S. citizens, American Indians and Alaska Natives are generally subject to federal, state, and local laws. On federal Indian reservations, however, only federal and tribal laws apply to members of the tribe, unless Congress provides otherwise.
http://www.bia.gov/FAQs/index.htm

Are there any Federal laws not mentioned in Title 25 at all, that therefore do not apply to Indians?

The relationship between the US and Indians has changed over time. At first Indian Tribes were completely sovereign nations independent of the US, but many things have happened since then so that is no longer the case. One the main things that happened is that in 1924 all Indians were granted US citizenship (some were already citizens). The "sovereign" language of Indian Tribes is still sometimes used, but if you look at Federal laws passed by Congress, that now pretty much only means that Indian Tribes generally have sovereignty with regard to the states in which they are located, but even then there are some exceptions.

I think to sort of bring this legal status thing back to the BBJ discussion, it's my understanding that there is no authority other than the tribe themselves who has the power to either observe/review the accounting for BBJ money, nor ensure that the Seminoles are complying with their published policy. So they can claim they are distributing 100% of it back to players, but we have no power to demand to see their books to ensure that. And there is no gambling commission external to the tribe who makes those types of inspections.

Is that a correct assumption, or does anyone think there is a way to ensure compliance to their own advertising?

Correct assumption. They do not have to show any proof, nor are they legally required, to distribute 100% of bbj money taken in.

The National Indian Gaming Commission regulates Indian gaming, but I don't think there are specific rules regarding disbursement of a BBJ, but there are very specific rules for handling and accounting of drops.

If I had a major concern about BBJ/promotions (I personally do not have any such concerns), I would send an email to info@nigc.gov
According to them “the Commission is authorized to conduct investigations; undertake enforcement actions, including the issuance of violation, assessment of civil fines, and/or issuance of closure orders; conduct background investigations; conduct audits; and review and approve Tribal gaming ordinances.”

One might be able to file a civil case in Federal court, but that is probably not practical for you.

Another option is contact a consumer affairs reporter in the media. They love this kind of stuff (if there is a legitimate complaint). I would first try the same reporters who wrote the story in the link posted previously. They are Brad Goldstein and Jeff Testerman of the St Pete Times.

Are there specific BBJ disbursement rules for other Florida poker rooms?

The only thing that I found is this:

(7) CONDITIONS FOR OPERATING A CARDROOM.--

(d) A cardroom operator may award giveaways, jackpots, and prizes to a player who holds certain combinations of cards specified by the cardroom operator.
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Florida/

This is my understanding. Regulated means there are regulators who ensure they are doing what they say. Unregulated means there are no such regulators. Essentially there is no over-sight. If they wanted to skim the BBJ there is no one who has the authority to come in and either review the numbers or penalize them.

The argument I always hear is they they only add $X a day to the BBJ pools because they pay the remainder out in promotions. However, the promotions are incentive based. And that would seem to me to be an impossible way to pay 100% of what they take in.

I think this is counterproductive - as I am sure any complaint or lawsuit would get you banned for life.

They don't pay out 100% every month. They have an account and find ways to pay out from it.

Last day of December. Is the January promo officially that absurd Monday thing? Might hit Derby for a while.

Was told this by a supervisor today. Jan promo is the Monday $5k royals. Separate from any monthly promo, she said they are "going back to the old way" of doing the BBJ. By that she said instead of adding 2k per day, they would add 60% of the daily drop to the main BBJ, 30% for the backup, and 10% for the third backup. She said this isnt just for Jan, but all months going forward.

I asked if there would still be a miniBBJ and she wasnt sure. I didnt have a chance to ask her if that meant no money would be going to other types of promos like gas cards, etc.

She seemed a little unsure of the % between the main and backup, like it might be 70/20 v 60/30. Also, she said the BBJ would never reset less than 50k.

So we'll see what actually happens this week.

That seems perfectly fair to me. There is no way they can pay it out exactly 100% each month. So long as they don't cipher off the money from the BBJ drop to something other than a jackpot or other promotion, I think it is perfectly OK that there is always some balance in the account that has not been paid off.

If you go out the website for Indian Gaming Regulatory Commission (http://www.nigc.gov), you can see they do regulate Indian gaming and they do have extensive regulations (especially for counting the drops). But they do not actively verify everything that happens with on-site NICG auditors any more than state auditors actively regulate non-Indian poker on-site. Also, poker is considered to be class II gaming, and therefore has far less regulation than class III gaming (games of chance where you play against the house).

So long as they don't remove money from the BBJ account for some other purpose besides a jackpot or a promotion, I don't see a problem in not paying out 100% every month, because it not really practical to do that, especially since they guarantee a minimum jackpot amount even if someone just won the jackpot. The jackpot does not set to zero right after someone wins, and this requires that they have some rolling balance in the account.

I still believe that if an Indian casino claimed that they only used BBJ drops for jackpots and promotions, and instead they siphoned off money for other purposes, that the Indian Gaming Regulatory Commission would come down on them if they found out. They would look at anonymous complaints, but there would probably have to be some evidence of wrong-doing presented to them, instead of just a suspicion.

My biggest gripe against the Seminole BBJ is that it is rigged in favor of limit games, especially when the players conspire to only play hands that qualify for the jackpot, and agree to play them to the river with minimal betting. I have been told by dealers that this happens frequently, and that most jackpots are won in the limit games.

But in general, if one wants to make money at poker (or loose less money), they should stop complaining about comps and promotions and figure out how to play poker better. The comps and promotions only make a very small difference on average as to whether one wins or looses money playing poker.

I agree. But, I think they should also publish daily the amount in the "other promotion" pool and keep it as a segregated account of money to be returned to players in promotions.

That's not necessarily how it works. In fact, they don't seem to follow the minimum control standards in the NIGC regulations in regards to a BBJ drop:
I'm pretty sure this is how the Seminole tribe interprets and applies these minimum control standards:

1. They publish that 40% of the BBJ drop goes to the BBJ and 60% is kept by them for "future promotions".

2. The "progressive pots and pools" as above in the regulations is only the 40% that goes to the progressive BBJ. The 60% they can do whatever they want with, for other promotions or profit.

Anyone who thinks THR is not following NIGC regulations (other than for something trivial) should file a complaint with them. I don't think they will give your name to the casino unless it involves an incident with you specifically (obviously not applicable to the discussion of BBJ drop).

Like I said before, the consumer affairs reporter option is also a good one, since casinos don't want bad publicity (it potentially hurts profits). That newspaper article posted above was about employee theft/collusion, but stealing from customers is a "whole 'nother ball game."

One thing I was trying to explain earlier is that if you take your car to an auto-mechanic and they rip you off or make your car worse, and refuse to fix it or make restitution, it is not that easy to get satisfaction either.

Yeah I was talking about currently. There seem to be some decent looking female grinders out there too. Not that I would want to get involved...first thing they would want is a stake lol. But still it's an uncommon mix compared to what I have seen around the country.

I had received a letter from HR telling me about some awesome promotions from my playing there a while back. Then I get around to going there and there is nothing. I have the chance to put some decent hours in (unless I run bad they I quit lol). I am wondering if I should go to the dog track instead. I mean this place is really cheap about everything. You have to actually state the amount you want for a comp? Ridiculous. Other casino's you have your dollar amount on the card and you spend it how and when you want don't have to put up with smart mouth pit bosses and wait around and then not use the exact amount unless you first go and find out exactly how much the comp will cost. For a place with absolutely no table game competition I find this general approach, and taking a drop when everyone folds preflop, to be extremely greedy to the point of causing resentment. I've pretty much become a minimal tipper while usually I am on the generous side. But hey ya know if you want to squeeze me I will return the favor. The amount of money they make in that casino is sickening and they turn around and are just completely unappreciative just because they can be. If I ever win the bad beat jackpot you will know it's me because I will be the guy who tipped nada.

I think that is just a limitation of the THR computer systems. But in general, you can't compare comps at LV and AC with those at Indian reservations, since the Indian casinos usually have no nearby competition. I have played at Harrah's Cherokee in NC, and they very few comps, but Harrah's (Caesar's) in LV and AC have lots of comps. Last time I played poker at Harrah's, it took 4 days for my poker hours to be credited for meal credits, which was after I had already left, so I don't complain about THR (which gets credited immediately).

I don't know know and maybe someone else can comment on this. One thing that I really hate about THR are the poorly trained and unprofessional dealers (with some notable exceptions). So sometimes the dealers just don't follow the rules or are not paying attention.

I have done so:

Yeah, this is just plain false. I know Bellagio and Venetian use the same system. The other local rooms don't even have comps and you have to pay for all drinks...

It sucks, but it is also common throughout Florida. THR isn't special on this.

some dealers don't do it. I wonder how big a risk they are taking by not doing it, or if they even know they are supposed to drop if there is just a raise and everyone folds.

2/5 is now 1K max buy.

ratholers still gonna be rats

That's interesting. I wonder if it will have much of an effect, since it seems that many don't buy in for even 5-600 as is.

Do you know if they changed the max buy in on the 1/2 or 1/3 games?

The only one that changed is 2/5, and the min is still $200. So 2/5 is now $200-$1000 buy-in.