Why do people always say "with only $8 invested..."? It had nothing to do with the EV of the play. I think either is fine. He has to be able to fold some of the time if you jam, and I think he does.

Hanginout:

Ship 100%, if 100bb matters that much to your BR you should play smaller. You are +EV vs his range, easy decision plus the added value of when you brick declaring "pair of twos", might help get you action in the future, being that you are a self described nit. If you fold in that spot, get in line with the other 50%+ of the players in that game playing as under paid props working for "dash for cash" hours. But what do I know, I was told that there was a comment in the 1-2 game last night from a guy who wanted to step up to 5-10, his reasoning was because he had watched me put in $500 with 23 & get thr. I don't remember the hand, but I welcome the challenge. Back to you, I honestly am not in the position to tell you how to play in that spot being that I'm not a 1-2-4 reg, I am curious to see how many think fold is acceptable. Its a bit naive to think that his range is good over pair or set, what does he do with 89 suited, 9T suited, A7, 88, 99? Just call? fold?

^^^^^^This and I promise you I ship here, folding is fine but as stated if your that stressed with the $135 behind your losing out on some ev situations.

Why don't you and abarber sit down heads up, $5/10, and get it over with. Or put some gloves on and find out, although your comments towards each other are entertaining.

I have no issue with abarb, without him my win rate would be way down. We also have a 2k weight loss bet going, so I'm gonna take my frustrations out on the gym.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate the advice. However I'm wondering where I can find a .5-1 live game. W/ my roll burnt up in FTP, this is the only game I can play in. And btw what range do you put someone on that can raise/fold?

Also.... @ 30 hands/hr it seems unlikely I'll soon get a chance to exploit any image I gain from this play agaist a buncha idiots who pay off every time I pick up a hand n e way. Esp w/ the fact that most people in the game play pretty short stacked.

And to answer your question..... I feel he smooth calls those hands and doesn't raise. Which I guess makes it a fold. I know that response answers my own question, but I thought I played the hand bad and shoulda folded. Maybe I was just lookin for a reason that I played bad.


What's he limp/raise/folding?


It's relevant because it we put in $100 preflop it's obviously a different situation based on the odds we're getting from the pot right?

Again guys, I hate asking for advice, then bitching about what advice I get. I honestly appreciate the input. But I just feel like his range here is so tight.

Thanks again. I guess I should feel better about the play since u guys are saying it's an ok stack off. But it's just hard to put him on a range that I'm doing ok against.

And btw I'm not just another live donk who's scared to put in 100bbs. I played at least 2-3 million hands online 2-300kish of which were 2-4, 6 handed and higher.

I obviously didn't manage my money well, and am now trying my best to rebuild a roll live. And although I'm broke as ish...... to say I'm scared money/afraid of variance or whatever would be a huge stretch.

Again, thanks. I always rip people who post something then talk ish about the responses they get. But I just feel like his range here is super strong. Thanks for the responses tho. I hope I played it well

gl

Start with post #399 ITT

Mostly any 7, and with the unlikelyness the pfr opener has a hand due to his bet sizing, a nitty player should raise in that spot more often then call.

^^This in your only valid argument imo, which you failed to include in the OP

again, 78-7As

from your HH, 40 dead pre, 15 dead opener, you risk 135 by shoving, chance that pfr calls, you agree you have +EV right? If not, im missing something. If so, your only argument is still "I get action with the nutz, why risk it".

Then don't.

Please explain. His range pre cant be too tight to limp/call the minraise pre (we should almost always take away big pair and AK). On the flop his hand should be polarized to big draw or pair+. So explain what I'm missing in the OP that suggests his range is so tight

Your welcome. And stop being so results oriented.

No need to defend your BR or game selection, it obviously works for you. I know all about "I played this & now I play this' stories, honestly, thats been part of poker before black friday and the whole internet boom. If you cant take criticism, your not ready to learn. "His range is super strong because I know it!" is an interesting statement to make without support, try to articulate what about his game gave you this opinion and exploit it.

Good Luck, and feel free to blast me, I'm just a bad player that gets lucky sometimes when my 23 sucks out on someone.

Because its different if he's put in $25. A tight player whos even tighter post flop. And you think he folds? ok

it's only different when he puts in 25 in that he needs less equity vs villain's range to get it in since he has fewer chips left in his stack.

pot to stack ratio is a worthwhile consideration. how much we have or have not invested in the pot is not.

The majority of time that people use the phrase "I only have X in there..." they aren't considering their range vs their opponent's, just the size of the bet they have to call relative to the amount they have invested. What is invested is a "sunk cost" which is of no consequence UNLESS it changes the price you're getting significantly, i.e. a click-back or shove from a shorty.

Also, after talking with Erle, if you have the ability to snap reload after this hand if you bust, you kinda have to ship for a variety of reasons that have been mentioned and one that hasn't: it's a great chance to play deeper vs bad players. When I was propping at Royale and they had just started the 1-2-4, I'd sometimes take the worst of it for a chance at a double stack.

Nice to see this thread dissolve into abarber & er7eman's private Sacramento thread with all others either ignored or prostrated for their views. Good show guys... good show. Thanks for representing Sacramento so well.

And propping? Isn't it extremely difficult to get fired when you're a prop?

No, no...thank YOU for representing YOURSELF so well.

So if you had hit would u still be questioning the play?

Alright here is a donkey play I made yesterday at TV 1-3. Any comments appreciated:

Table: Bunch of nits (anyone noticed TV 1-3 is the nittiest it has ever been??)

Hero possibly has a semi-LAG image historically but has been showing the goods tonight when called on the river.

Effective stacks: ~$130.00

Hero limps on Button with QcTc in a 4/5 -way straddled pot.

Flop ~($25.00): Js9s5h (4-5 players)
SB (nit) checks,
BB (nit) checks,
UTG (unknown but Tight-passive) bets about $15.00
Folds to me and I call the $15.00
SB calls $15.00

Turn: ($70) Low-Brick (3 players )
SB checks,
UTS appears weak (not acting I mean) and bets ~20.00
Pot is now ~$90. Hero feels confident in bullying abilities and shoves all-in on OESD + over;
villains have around $115ish each in chips left. The way I see it I can get most nitty players to fold anything less that TPGK, 2pair, mega draw, and sets. Plus I have some raw equity.

Stove:
Board: Js 9s 5h 2d

equity win
SB: 40.513% { JJ, 99, 55, AsKs, 6s5s, 5s4s, AJo, KJo, QJo }
Hero : 18.974% { QcTc }
UTG: 40.513% { JJ, 99, 55, AsKs, 6s5s, 5s4s, AJo, KJo, QJo }

Is this a suicide mission given the board texture and action so far?

Raise the flop. Your ahead of everything except a set, but you still have very good equity even if they do. By raising, your also charging higher flush draws that could draw out on you. If the nit has a Jack, he'll most likely call your raise and re-evaluate on the turn.

As far as you played it, I dont mind the shove over the weak bet. QJ, JT seems to me the most likely, but I believe he has anything more than one pair.

It's a limped pot and the only spades you put villains on are AK, 65, and 54?

A lot of poker is being able to put villains on an accurate range and you are WAY off. Who limps JJ preflop? AK? AJ maybe but your ranges are not even close to realistic.

cool, can we change the name?

Opps, I meant to ignore you

Person A asks for advice about a hand
Person B supplies his advise, which is essentially "you played it right"
Person A Still thinks he played it wrong, so decides to ridicule person B

I know what your thinking, why did Player B prostrate your friend. You know what I'm thinking? What the hell is prostrate?

Well thats unfortunate, because the sole purpose of me posting itt is to promote the positive, fun, and exciting place Sacramento can be!!

No. Some people just are not "prop material".

For all those who don't know me personally, I would like to say that I am sorry if I come off wrong, but I am willing to give my opinion on just about anything poker. As you can see I do tend to keep things on the lighter side.

JHAT-
Is this a suicide mission? I think it is based solely on your self described LAG image, but if you can safely say there calling hand range is tpgk+, mega draw, I like the play.
As far as your line, I prefer to raise flop.

Prostrate
verb [ trans. ] ( prostrate oneself)
lay oneself flat on the ground face downward, esp. in reverence or submission : she prostrated herself on the bare floor of the church.
• (often be prostrated) (of distress, exhaustion, or illness) reduce (someone) to extreme physical weakness : she was so prostrated by a migraine that she could scarcely get up the stairs.

Not the best word choice ever. If I knew who you were IRL, I'd buy you a dictionary/thesaurus.

If the table was that nitty-raise pre-you we're clearly polarized post flop as to table ranges, and there is nothing wrong with suicide missions imo.

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

Koko, I agree with you on this. I just stoved random hands to get a feel for raw equity. I can rule out sets/two-pair from SB because he would c/r flop bet. And UTG straddled so ATC but I can rule out sets and two-pair because of small turn raise-size. I still have trouble ranging Tight-Passive players because they sometimes like to small-bet large hands (sets) on wet boards becuase they "dont want to chase anyone away" -or- when they fear a draw TP players tend to drastically overbet made hands as well.

I could take the pot down on the flop perhaps. Pot is around $35 when it reaches me. Given it costs me $15 to call, would a bet of $15+30 = $45 be okay? That makes the pot $80 with $45 to call SB and $30 to call UTG. If I brick the turn then am I putting all-in if it checked to me?

If I raise pre into this field of 2 straddle (2bb) limpers (before it gets to SB and BB) then what size are we considering? What kind of flop am I looking for when c-betting?

$45 is good, it accomplishes the same as $55. If you were OOP i might c/r all-in this spot. You are playing short stacked <100bb. You should be calling off any flop shoves. And for the same reason you should call off on flop, you should check turn, this play is almost always getting called & by a better hand being the tight ranges your up against.

Some people on earlier posts wanted to see if anyone is interested in hosting a game.

I am willing to host a PLO only game maybe once a month with blinds at $0.50/$0.50 with $1 bring in if there is an interested. (Friday or Saturday Nights in the Arden Area.)

Here is my thread from a few months back:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...mento-1023657/

This will probably not attract players who normally participate in $5/$10 NLHE games but should be affordable for the ones who play $1/$2 or $1/$3 NLHE, especially since there is no rake and no tips to dedicated dealers.

I would strongly consider implementing the variance reduced options reference on the thread.

When we had a somewhat regular group of people a few years ago who took turns hosting home games we tried PLO a few times on half NLHE/half PLO and most enjoyed playing PLO.

Feel free to comment on this thread or the Home Game Listing thread above.

I think we need some IRL names ITT. I am tired of guessing. I know CJ, Braden, Erle, and Steve G. Introduce yourselves.