Using your phone at table > all those things combined

I agree on all of these, but I don't care much about any of them.
I can picture some reg FW players we all know sitting down without having to post, playing until their BB, then getting up and looking for another table...
(Also, plastic cups are relatively harmless if thrown...)

Yeah pretty much this.

I feel like I'm 16 being reprimanded by a high school teacher.

I think that if you decide to change tables, maybe make those players post but not a brand new player.
It is not that I just prefer these things the other way, with the exception of the glassware, I just dont see the reasoning behind them.
As far as the cellphones, yes, that is prob the main reason that I could never play at Mohegan for more than a stray session every 6 months or so. But there are a couple of FW dealers that enforce the no cell rule too. I hate them

ETA...Vinny told me that he posted a pic of the scum bball player. Guess Lattimer is faster than I am

Well, I was mostly joking, but I do think the actual reason they don't serve in glasses (or glass bottles) is safety concern.
Also, re posting to play, there are so many tables going most of the time at FW (compared to other rooms) that I actually do think a few people would abuse the no-post policy and bounce around, and if so, this would create a lot of resentment among the other players.
The "must-show both cards to claim pot, even though opponent has mucked" rule is what FW went to when they eliminated the IWTSTH rule a few years ago. (Which I was glad to see.) I don't have a problem with it, but again, I don't really care much.
MS cellphone policy is absurd. The only cellphone rule I've actually seen enforced at FW in recent years is no cellphone use while actually in a hand, which I think is a good policy. (I guess there's more concern over this at 1/2NL because of the BBJ, but I think it's mostly the players who enforce it there.)

Good luck with it. I hope you get paid.

fwiw I think it's a good sign he keeps in contact with you.

Liability, cost
Cheap losers moving tables
Easier to attempt collusion.

Went last night and was happy to learn they now let you use your phone as long as it's off the rail (if actually using your phone for a call you still have to stand up).

So it has been 5 days since they were seen "fixing" the chairs and still none of the chairs that I sat in last night moved
So one of those Winners shops is going in where El Pollo Loco was I was hoping for a restaurant.
Did anyone else get the impression from the new CEOs article that he was trying to expand the restaurant options?

I don't think he wants to expand *cheap* restaurant options. He's made it pretty clear that he doesn't care about the low roller - from closings/cutbacks and from his actual publicized comments... actions and words.

Well, that's even better, IMO.
As far as wanting higher end restaurants

Hey everyone,

I'm new to playing live. I have only done a couple of sessions live playing 3/6 or 4/8 limit holdem. So .. Pretty low stakes. My BR is only about $2,000. I'm strictly small time, but I like the game and the small amount of profit I can make.

I live in Providence RI. So I'm leaning towards FW since it is slightly closer for me to drive 2-3 nights a week.

I was hoping someone could answer a few questions I have:

-Will the rake kill me at 4-8 LHE?
-Does FW still have the "black card" like is mentioned on the first page of this thread? Do I earn it by signing up for the regular "Wild card" and achieving the 800 points earned in 12 mo's?
-Are the games plentiful and soft enough on say Tuesdays Thursdays and Fridays?

Thanks for any info!

-Kev

Yes on the black card. Just get a normal card and once you accumulate 500 hours and 75 days of play, in a year, you will get the black card
Download the Bravo app on your phone. It tells you what games are running at any given time.

Cant answer the other question

The rake won't kill you at 4-8. If you're good enough, you should be able to make ~ 10/hr. However, I will say I've played that game twice during the week the last 2 months killling time while taking my father up there and both times thought the game really wasn't worth playing to make money in. Eveybody was a regular/knew each other, a couple kids in the game even mentioned this website. Only 2 games were going. I played that game regularly 8-10 years ago and the play was definately worse then than what I've seen now. I understand its a small sample size, but what I think has happened is the recreational player has gone to 1-2 NL, but I could be wrong. Would like to hear other's opinions as well.

- 4/8 Limit is completely unbeatable.

- the games will always be "good" when you sit at 4/8, but rake is too high in relation to pot sizes to make any profit over the long run. 10/20 might be beatable for $10 hr. 20/40 is where it starts to be worth it.

Cool, thanks for the info. I'll be sure to sign up for a rewards card the next time I am there. I figure it will take me 35-40 weeks to get to 500 hrs. I only intend to go two days a week, maybe 3.

I have been checking up, they seem to usually have at least two 4/8 games going, and more on weekends.

Hmm that's concerning about the games sounding tight. I used to be able to beat 1/2 and 2/4 LHE games online consistently for 2.5 to 3.0bb/100 hands.

I was hoping to achieve 1bb/hr live. But I do need some marks or drunks at my tables... I don't want to sit with all stingy old men and 2+2ers. I'll have to check it out. I assume most fish go to the 2/4 tables since they are just looking for free drinks and cheap laughs.

So maybe 4/8 might not be so great for me.

I wouldn't say totally unbeatable… am I correct in understanding that the rake at Foxwoods is 10% capped at $4? The average pot size is probably $50-$60 at 4/8 right?. So most pots would be over the cap.?

Remember I'm strictly smalltime like I said. Im just looking for a little extra money and entertainment. Also I already have full-time employment and I do just fine financially so I don't need to make a killing here.

Thanks for the info guys!

I do have a couple more questions.

-is there free Wi-Fi access in the poker room?
-is it poor etiquette or is there a ban on headphones/iPods?

Lastly, if anyone else has any insight or comments on the quality of the 4/8 games I would love to hear it.

-Kev

Headphones are permitted. No on the wifi. I get great service on my IPhone but you cant get normal wifi

Well, do the math.

Being a really solid limit player would have around a 1.5 Big Bet/hr winrate in a live setting. The highest sustainable winrate in limit is about 2 Big Bets/hr.

At 4/8, 1.5 BB's is $12 hr. If we're as solid of a plyer as we say, we're probably winning 4-5 hands an hr. And, as you stated, most opots are capped rake....so $4 a pot. You're forgetting the $1 for the BBJ though. So $5 taken out every pot you win. Even at 4 pots, thats $20 in total drop in that hour. You're officially paying $8/hr to play in a game that you're actually "beating" pretty well at 1.5 BB's hour.

Same math makes 10/20 slightly beatable (the 10/20 at foxwoods is relly nitty though, so idk). Thats why it really only starts the be worth it at 20/40. They dont take a dollar out for the BBJ from the 20/40 game at foxwoods either, so that helps immensely.

Its incredibly possible to beat 4/8 for what seems like a good amount of money for a long while, cause live sample sizes are always so small. Thats why this subject is deceiving to a lot of players, but math never lies. Over the loooooong run, 4/8 isnt beatable.

To put it in better perspective, we see around 25 hands an hour during live poker. Even if it were $4 from each pot, foxwoods takes $100/hr off the table. It would take 20 hrs for foxwoods to take every dollar off the table of a 4/8 game if all 10 people that started the game bought in for a full rack of yellows ($2000 total.) Only 20 f'n hours. How could you possibly overcome that?

Solid low limit players win less then 2 hands an hour in the long run.

alew has the right idea (the rake and JP drop at 4/8 is tough to overcome) but he's susceptible to hyperbole and I wouldn't trust his specifics.

Play some 4/8 and take shots at 10/20 when it looks good. run good and shift your mix to more 10/20. or don't and go back to 4/8 and regain some confidence and dollars. its a cycle. game selection and quitting are important skills. think about ways to get better at them.

keep working on your game. sslhe and mslhe have lots of helpful posters. post some spots that have you confused.

I was hoping to achieve 1bb/Hr live.. which I understand is the "golden standard" for a decent LHE player.

But I always understood the 1bb/Hr live win-rate as measured AFTER the rake. At least from other posts on these forums I have read, that is what people were suggesting. Since rake and variance are so hard to track live.

But lets take your math into account, because if I take down 4 pots an hour I'll do this full time.

Winning 4 pots...2 average sized ($60) and 2 under averaged ($30) sized pots would mean I would win $180 an hour in pots ay 4/8... gee if only I could be so lucky. Heck if I loose the $20 in rake from my pots you suggest, and tip another $20 an hour, and loose $100 an hour to blinds and lost hands... I'm left making $40+ an hour! Not bad!

Heck I'll quit my job and play 4/8 LHE at $40/Hr. full time! (according to your math)

Buuut me thinks I'm looking at a much lower hourly wage.

This seems a little more grounded in reality. I expect playing 4/8 LHE live will be much less exciting than averaging 4 pots won an hour. 1 or 2 at the most. I'll probably spend 90% of my time at the table grinding away being the TAG player I am, occasionally grabbing blinds, folding rags, Turn take-downs.. leaving just 1 or 2 real "pots" an hour like you said. This seems more in line with the small amount of live experience I have.

I mean I only expect 30-35 hands an hour live..

And if the rake doesn't make 4/8 LHE totally UNBEATABLE as alew22 suggests, Im probably looking at minimum wage. Maybe $8-$9 an hour if I'm lucky.

Which is fine. I'm just looking for casual cash poker playing and a little extra poker winnings to add to my regular income. I'm already employed full time, so $8-$9 an hour a couple nights a week sounds pretty good to me.

Eh now Im confused though.. maybe the rake does kill 4/8LHE.

I got one poster saying you can do $10/hr at 4/8 LHE and another saying its totally unbeatable

Whats a guy to do?



Thanks Munga,

I suppose there's nothing to it but to do it. And just see how it goes.

I'm in the process of re-reading my low limit HE books. And going over my old PokerTrack database. I have kept my old PT database from all of my online playing from 2004-2008 on a flash drive. It's 100's of thousand of hands, but its hepfull (and nostalgic) to see hands I played on-line years ago. I usually played 1/2 and 2/4 online. As a college kid this was great books and beer money for me.

I stopped most online play when Neteller froze my money for a year in 2007. By 2008 I basically stopped.

But I miss poker.

And until they supposedly/maybe build the Wampanoag casino in Taunton, I'm stuck with either FW or MS.

Who is playing the slot tourney today?

You're not taking into account the hands that you lose tho. You cant say you can win $180 worth of pots every hour. You're gonna lose tons of hands too. Wait till you go on a nasty downswing....oh man lol

Just try to play some 10/20 here and there to help you be more profitable. Sticking at 4/8 forever wont be the best idea. Ive seen 8/16 even kick off a few times over the past month or so.

From what I have heard, when the 8/16 game goes it is awesome. As far as 10/20 goes, you will hear people complain about it being tight and boring, but it all depends on the players. For the most part the 10/20 game is fun, multiway action to the river is common.

About the rake: Look, it entirely depends on how your opponents play as to whether 4-8 is beatable or not. Trust me, if the game is good enough (the others are bad enough), the rake is not a problem at all. I kept accurate records years ago and beat that game over 2000 hours for over 1 BB/hr.

I don't know if I'd have the same results today though, and as I said, the times I've played the game didn't seem that profitable.