Seriously, we're all degens but we always take +EV, don't we?

ME and my friend were playing downtown where they had 100x odds. After 4 sessions of swings in the 8k-15k range each day he asks for a comp and gives him his player card. They tell them he has like $1.40 in comps.

As far as comps at bigger casinos it depends Becusse they often rate by time played, so you can post up at a $25 table and play 25 pass and 25 behind for 7 hours and probably get good comps, if its a full table it will take a while for each roll as well. On the other hand you can play by yourself, play fast and fire pretty big every hand and get crap in comps Becusse you only played for 30 minutes, despite wagering 10x what the other guy did.

It also partially depends on the guy in charge of the rating, sometimes you play big but only get credit for whatever the table minimum is.

It's def not worth learning for the comps as video Plaer is way better; it is however worth learning because its the best game ever.

Thanks.
Maybe I'll be fortunate enough to get a lesson from you this summer.

Here are my noob observations regarding craps.

I sauntered up to the table (second session) with maybe ten blacks in hand and a stack of reds. Put a red on pass, maybe lost or won on a come-out roll. Point gets set on the next roll or three. Immediately put 20x behind the pass and instantly get asked for my players card. Dude takes it, writes something down and wishes me "good luck" by name.

An hour later, I rack-up. (Two sessions- one a winner, one not.) The last session, he's jotting something on a small piece of paper and again thanks me by name. My average bet per roll is over a fun tic, even those most of those rolls just let the money ride. When the wife and I checked out (total bill for the weekend was $38 and that includes the Chicago Steakhouse and the Scout's Honor), the casino host actually thanked me for my play.

Not sure what to make of all this, but I thought I'd pass it along.

The more important question is, did you enjoy the game?

Comps are, or were 10 years ago, given out at a rate of 1/4 what they expected to win from you. Because the odds bet has no house edge, a $5 pass bet with $500 odds is treated as a $5 bet. Craps is slow - about 20 comeouts per hour. So the calculation would have been $100/hr action * 1.4% house edge * 0.25 = $0.35/hr in comps.

Blackjack used to have a quirk where, although basic strategy yielded a 0.6-0.8% house edge, most players were bad and they'd give out blackjack comps based on a 2% house edge. Blackjack has 60 hands/hr (full table) to 150 hands/hr (HU), so while the basic comp calculation is still the same, a $5 BJ player would accumulate comps at a $400/hr * 2% * 0.25 = $2/hr rate.

The key to milking the system is (was) manipulating the pit boss's inputs. Double your first few bets to seem like you're playing twice as big, take hands off to get credit for time you didn't play, and for BJ at least some people claimed to make a profit off of basic strategy play.

I'm pretty sure the difference is measured in cents per hour. It's like 1.41% vs. 1.23%, which is like 17 cents to jab your finger in the eye of every other player.

If you're one of those dice control guys and want a table all to yourself so you can shoot more, great plan. If you're a recreational player and looking to whoop it up with some friends, spend the extra 17 cents, IMO.

My point is that the game is more fun when you play the wrong way in terms of payouts. And yes I will usually play the right way in a large group of friends but have opened my own table just to fire the donts and people join

The fun party aspect is the reason I'd play. It is odd to think, but giving up some ev seems well worth it. Ofc, as a winning poker player, the time away from the poker room is a cost. Me lately? Should probably hit the pit with leo doc.

I've always considered it the opposite. You lay odds when you bet don't, so you either win $15 or lose $30.

But think about what happens on each roll. Most rolls you lose one unit but then eventually when the 7 hits you get shipped all the dollars.

Better yet someone makes the point after hitting most of the other numbers and comes out again and bang 7. Everyone wins.

Anyone gonna be in Vegas next weekend (march madness)? I'm actually going this time, would be fun to meet up.

Methinks you might be confused. If you are betting the don't pass and if a point is established, and the shooter rolls the point, you lose your don't pass bet and any odds that you may have layed. Now if the shooter is coming out again, and if you place another don't pass bet, and the roll is a 7, you lose again. Only if you are placing multiple don't come bets, can you sometimes be happy that a 7 was rolled on the come-out roll.

Oh, I think I see what the difference is. Jesse must be betting DP with DC. So he has multiple anti-points established, and as each one hits he loses one at a time and then cleans up on the 7. And he's complaining that playing P with C is the opposite - as each of your points hits, you win them one at a time with catastrophic fail on a 7.

But when you don't play C/DC, the opposite scenario is true: you're ignoring most rolls, and when a 7 comes, you lose one bet, but when you hit your point, you get odds and you win 1.2-2x your money.

Jesse - you are doing it wrong.

I actually think he's doing it right for his goals.

Back in 1999-2000 when online games were becoming popular, I used to play MSN's play chip craps on one of the lab computers while waiting for my analysis. Each analysis run was 8 minutes long, and I'd see how far I could run up 1,000 chips (pretty sure I hit 1,000,000 a few times).

At first I'd do Pass plus Odds, then with each point established go for Come plus Odds. As Jesse described, basically you'd win a bit here and there and when you sevened out there would be a massive orgy of loss. Then I realized it was far more satisfying the other way: DP (+odds), and DC (+odds). When I sevened, there was a massive orgy of win and a satisfying crunch as the computer speakers struggled to process the sound of a bajillion chips rubbing on my titties.

Obviously you bet dont come max odds every roll.

Correct. That scene in every movie where the guy rolls a seven and everybody is excited? Its not a come out roll. They are playing the don'ts

Nope. My method is also drunk proof as I said. 1 chip dont pass. 1 chip don't come 6 chips odds every roll.

The don't pass and don't come boxes are smaller than the pass and come boxes, which means people who play the don'ts have smaller penises.

If a guy is opening button - 6 in an 8/16 game with A8o it's ok to 3 bet the 77 button - 4 right?

Last year I put fun ahead of profits as my motivations for playing, so I would've 3 bet that in a second last year. Now I'm not so sure without a better read on his pair range and his unpaired range. Could go either way I guess. 88 seems like a slam dunk 3 bet, while 66 is a little dubious.

It's like being the guy at the table who doesn't say anything when people do a round of straddles, then takes a break or refuses to straddle his turn. Sure, for that guy's goals he's doing it right and sure, it's probably even more fun for him that way. But, that doesn't change the fact he's doing it wrong.

It depends. Do you have a leg up?

A computer programmer is at a supermarket and calls his wife to ask if she needs anything.

"Get a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen."

The programmer buys 12 loaves of bread.