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08-05-2013 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22
hitting a house is the most embarrassing thing ever. and yes ive done it multiple times
Especially when the house isn't really close to the hole. Like when you decide to push/slice one 150 yards right...
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08-05-2013 , 02:51 PM
I read a case about golf course negligence in law school and just looked up a few for kicks. Some are pretty interesting, with some funny language. In terms of liability, BO was essentially right: there's no liability for simply being bad and mi****ting a normal drive. Some folks might find it interesting that the vast majority of cases ignore the "it's your fault for living on a golf course" argument. Rather, they (rightfully) focus on the player's actions. In Rinaldo v. McGovern, 78 N.Y.2d 729 (a New York state case) the court stated the issue as follows:

Quote:
Plaintiffs' cause of action based on the claimed negligence of the defendant golfer is similarly untenable. Although the object of the game of golf is to drive the ball as cleanly and directly as possible toward its ultimate intended goal (the hole), the possibility that the ball will fly off in another direction is a risk inherent in the game. Contrary to the view of the dissenters below, the presence of such a risk does not, by itself, import tort liability (see, 167 A.D.2d 942, 944, 561 N.Y.S.2d 1006 [Callahan, J.P., and Balio, J., dissenting] ). The essence of tort liability is the failure to take reasonable steps, where possible, to minimize the chance of harm. Thus, to establish liability in tort, there must be both the existence of a recognizable risk and some basis for concluding that the harm flowing from the consummation of that risk was reasonably preventable.
5 Since “ ‘even the best professional golfers cannot avoid an occasional “hook” or “slice” ’ ” (Jenks v. McGranaghan, supra, 30 N.Y.2d at 479, 334 N.Y.S.2d 641, 285 N.E.2d 876, quoting Nussbaum v. Lacopo, supra, 27 N.Y.2d at 319, 317 N.Y.S.2d 347, 265 N.E.2d 762), it cannot be said that the risk of a mi**** golf ball is a fully preventable occurrence. To the contrary, even with the utmost concentration and the “tedious preparation” that often accompanies a golfer's shot (see, Nussbaum v. Lacopo, supra, at 319, 317 N.Y.S.2d 347, 265 N.E.2d 762), there is no guarantee that the ball will be lofted onto the correct path. For that reason, we have held that the mere fact that a golf ball did not travel in the intended direction does not establish a viable negligence claim (Jenks v. McGranaghan, supra, 30 N.Y.2d at 479, 334 N.Y.S.2d 641, 285 N.E.2d 876). To provide an actionable theory of liability, a person injured by a mi**** golf ball must affirmatively show that the golfer failed to exercise due care by adducing proof, for example, that the golfer “aimed so inaccurately as to unreasonably increase the risk of harm” (Nussbaum v. Lacopo, supra, 27 N.Y.2d at 319, 317 N.Y.S.2d 347, 265 N.E.2d 762).
In short, the golfer wasn't negligent because "There [was] no evidence that either defendant was careless or guilty of anything other than making an inept tee shot." Thank God.

However, in some circumstances it doesn't look like it's too hard to get to a jury. In Hennessey v. Pyne, 694 A.2d 691 (a Rhode Island state case) the judge allowed the case to go to a jury on liability on the following facts:

Quote:
Although Hennessey did not see Pyne's tee shot and Pyne offered no explanation of his conduct in relation to how and where he hit the ball, the following circumstances raise material questions of fact concerning whether he breached his duty of reasonable care to Hennessey in the way he played this golf shot: Pyne's awareness of the existence and the proximity of Hennessey's condominium as being within striking distance of his tee shot (midway down the fairway in the crook of a slight dogleg left); his knowledge that the condominiums where Hennessey lived were regularly hit by golf balls; his consciousness of Hennessey's apparently ubiquitous and complaining presence on or near the course (referring to her as “a chronic nuisance to golfers here at Louisquisset”); and his appreciation of the golfing advantage to be gained on this dogleg hole if he drove the ball off the tee as closely as possible past Hennessey's condominium (without striking it), thereby maximizing the distance of his shot and the lie of his ball down the fairway.
Cutting dog legs seems like a pretty clear instance where if you're meaning to do it and hit a house, or a person, there is a good argument you are liable for damages. Here's an example that I think would be on the most obvious end of liability on the part of the golfer:



Hole is the 17th hole at my home course growing up. It's a short hole, and hitting it up the fairway with a 3-wood gets you a pretty short shot to a big green. Regardless, and because golfers like to man up and do "fun" shots, everyone (and especially the high school golfers I would play with) would cut the corner. The red X is the men's tee, and that tree that lines go through is smaller than it looks, and was smaller back when I was playing it. A good player could take the blue line approach, carry it 215-220, and bounce down to a really short shot. Move the blue line a little to the left and a long ball hitter can get right down next to the green if not on it (it's a downhill slope to the green).

Not-so-long ball hitters, and the crazies, take the less skilled approach: the yellow line. Aim the yellow line and hit the road and, given the curvature of things, there's a very, very good chance you bounce in, and a smaller but still possible chance you hit the green. It's about 210 to the end of the yellow line and that house.

Long story short, if at any time one of the yellow-line drives hit a house or a car I think there's a VERY good argument that the golfer would be liable for everything. To go to the extreme, if a ball hit on the yellow line went through a car windshield and driver went off the road, hit a telephone poll, and died, golfer would be responsible. Might be slightly closer with blue line, but I still think there's negligence. Golfer chose a flight path that went off the regular course of play. Of course, golfer could deny they were trying to do that, but there would be enough evidence that this is a common occurrence (and you could probably dig up witnesses to say that golfer would often try to cut the corner) that you could get to a jury.

Again, this example might be close to as clear as it can get. Still, I think anytime you make a conscious decision to aim a certain direction that isn't straight down the fairway and cause damage, there is a risk that you are legally liable.

Incidentally, I've seen hundreds of drives taking the yellow or blue path (mine included). TONS of hit houses, but only one broken window. No hit cars, although one did come close and the driver pulled over and yelled.
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08-05-2013 , 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntanygd760
Do any of you guys golf in the Cleveland area?
I do, and to answer your implied question, go to Boulder Creek.
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08-05-2013 , 03:34 PM
Saw a hole in one yesterday - guy in the group behind us one-hopped it in on the 14th hole. We congratulated him when they drove up, he deadpanned that it made his day, and that was that. Never seen anyone less excited about a hole in one.

Dunno, maybe he was pissed off because they had to wait on us all the way around. Which should not have been a surprise, since they were a twosome and our 3 some waited on just about every shot behind several foursomes.
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08-05-2013 , 04:47 PM
Breaking News: Golf is expensive as hell! Went to Dick's (first mistake?) to test out some putters as I have no confidence in mine. $129+ for everything I was considering. Poked around the rest of the displays ... $500, $600, $700+ for a new set of irons ... crikey ... $300 for a new driver

People grabbing the majority of their "good" gear on CL? Are there a lot of seasonal sales in Nov -> March I should be holding out for?
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08-05-2013 , 04:53 PM
Check on eBay or buy used from a reputable retailer like GolfSmith or Golf Galaxy.

Nothing wrong with used clubs imo.
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08-05-2013 , 05:06 PM
in addition to that, reputable eBay sellers (the ones with 10,000+ reviews) sometimes sell brand new clubs in the wrapper for cheaper than anywhere else bc they'll take less of a profit.

if you want I can lookup the eBay seller I bought my driver from..it was brand new and I think $30 less than anywhere else.

I should add that after maaaybe 100 swings the shaft snapped in the middle. made me concerned it was a knockoff. guy got immediately back in touch with me and was ready to eat the shipping costs both from my house to the king cobra place and then back and they'd put a brand new shaft in for me. I just didn't want to wait 4 weeks in the middle of the season. so I had a guy put my old shaft into the new head. cost me $20. I told that to the eBay seller and he snap-sent me $20 on PP.

so yeah, def be careful on eBay, but it's not hard to find the reputable sellers. my driver is actually better now than it was before (the old shaft is stiffer and I think it's getting a little "broken in". no idea if that's even possible but the ball is flying further *shrug*).
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08-05-2013 , 07:40 PM
I'd like to second that ebay is usually the cheapest place to buy new equipment if you find a good dealer selling what you're looking for.
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08-05-2013 , 09:55 PM
Be careful with ebay, there are a lot of cheap Chinese knock-offs on there. The major manufactures do a pretty good keeping their retail prices in line. If something is too good to be true it probably is.

One of my coworkers used to work for a guy that was importing counterfeit clubs and selling them on ebay. He was doing it on such a scale that he actually got sent to prison.
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08-05-2013 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCBananaboy
Check on eBay or buy used from a reputable retailer like GolfSmith or Golf Galaxy.

Nothing wrong with used clubs imo.
+1 I've bought good stuff from Golf Galaxy for cheap before. You just have to wait for a sale for bigger sporting good stores like Dick's; they always are really expensive.
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08-05-2013 , 11:34 PM
Crossposting from another thread...

anyone have any advice for hitting irons off the tee? I tee them up, but so low that it just replicates a little fluffy rough with nothing to hit thru so nbd. The problem is I cant not pull my irons left. Its on most iron shots, but damn near 100% off the tee. Ive tried aiming right to compensate... Nooe. Still left of where its intended. Really frustrating and havent found a remedy yet...
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08-05-2013 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmthawk64
Crossposting from another thread...

anyone have any advice for hitting irons off the tee? The problem is I cant not pull my irons left. Its on most iron shots, but damn near 100% off the tee
are you using "regular" size grips? I had a similar problem with a new set of irons...kept pulling shots badly too frequently. I got them re-gripped w/thicker grips. It has helped as it keeps the hands from rolling too much coming through the ball.
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08-05-2013 , 11:47 PM
Yeah stock grips and yes my hands roll too much. Ill have to look into that but Im sure thats not a total cure. Lol
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08-06-2013 , 12:32 AM
You should probably look into fixing your actual club path, IMO. Quick fixes are quick fixes and never guaranteed to work for you. I would suggest to learn the correct swing. (your swing is probably traveling incorrectly).
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08-06-2013 , 01:01 AM
It's very very hard to hit a pull when your weight is on your front foot. I'd suggest a golf lesson.
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08-06-2013 , 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntnBO
Minor nit note, the term chop, while it's certainly accurate, isn't typically used when referring to golf tournaments.

BO
Taking your nittyness to new levels.

It's a commonly used term among poker players for splitting ANYTHING.

I can't believe you actually typed that out lol.
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08-06-2013 , 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booker Wolfbox
Saw a hole in one yesterday - guy in the group behind us one-hopped it in on the 14th hole. We congratulated him when they drove up, he deadpanned that it made his day, and that was that. Never seen anyone less excited about a hole in one.

Dunno, maybe he was pissed off because they had to wait on us all the way around. Which should not have been a surprise, since they were a twosome and our 3 some waited on just about every shot behind several foursomes.
Nice.

Had a guy tee off right into us while we were in the fairway while we we were waiting for a group that was still putting out. It was an uphill hole and the douche who teed off could clearly see them on the green.

We yell back WTF BRO. I **** you not he says "HURRY UP".

Amazing how dumb some people are. Wouldn't be shocked if your hole in one guy thought the slow play was your fault.
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08-06-2013 , 03:03 AM
easiest picked up/thrown ball in history.
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08-06-2013 , 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loK2thabrain
Nice.

Had a guy tee off right into us while we were in the fairway while we we were waiting for a group that was still putting out. It was an uphill hole and the douche who teed off could clearly see them on the green.

We yell back WTF BRO. I **** you not he says "HURRY UP".

Amazing how dumb some people are. Wouldn't be shocked if your hole in one guy thought the slow play was your fault.
lol wtf, no way that ball stays where it is.
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08-06-2013 , 06:31 AM
Is it just me, or is Sean Foley just like Mike McDermott from Rounders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHB7gs_rJPA
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08-06-2013 , 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loK2thabrain
Nice.

Had a guy tee off right into us while we were in the fairway while we we were waiting for a group that was still putting out. It was an uphill hole and the douche who teed off could clearly see them on the green.

We yell back WTF BRO. I **** you not he says "HURRY UP".

Amazing how dumb some people are. Wouldn't be shocked if your hole in one guy thought the slow play was your fault.
Similar situation happened to us a while back. Our group of 4 was waiting to tee off on #1, group of 2 in front of us is slow but it's standard. We wait till they're very near the green before any of us hit our max 200 yard drives ( Par 4 ).

We're all in the middle of the fairway and the twosome is still on the green so we're sitting around waiting. There's another group of 2 ( or 3 ) in the tee box. We're still waiting to hit our approach shots while the first group is finishing up.

Ranger comes down in his cart from the clubhouse. Says "The guys behind you are complaining about your slow play".

What's the standard line here? It's not some dogleg where you can't see the green from the tee.
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08-06-2013 , 10:07 AM
On the first hole?

Tell the ranger to **** off and get a clue.
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08-06-2013 , 10:23 AM
I'd try really hard to be cordial to the ranger -- but ultimately would tell him to **** off.
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08-06-2013 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loK2thabrain
Nice.

Had a guy tee off right into us while we were in the fairway while we we were waiting for a group that was still putting out. It was an uphill hole and the douche who teed off could clearly see them on the green.

We yell back WTF BRO. I **** you not he says "HURRY UP".

Amazing how dumb some people are. Wouldn't be shocked if your hole in one guy thought the slow play was your fault.
Honestly, people are just F*JKKING stupid. There's 15 holes of people waiting, and guys are blaming it on the foursome in front of them. 9:30am on a Saturday, and the course is backed up??? Who would have thought??
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08-06-2013 , 10:50 AM
Ya my friend kicked his ball back down the fairway IIRC. He drove up, words were exchanged but nothing happened.
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