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03-17-2014 , 09:44 PM
The hard part, I think, is that balancing a gear-based game like this is pretty much impossible if you're trying to make the game both accessible to all players, but also challenging.

As an example, my first character was pretty bad. I didn't know what I was doing with the skill tree, all my gear was horrible and self-found. I couldn't even kill Piety on normal, it wasn't even close.

My second guy, I pulled my head out of my ass on the build and just copied it from Ziggyd. My character was still pretty bad. I made it through normal, though. As soon as I took the plunge and traded for some gear, my DPS tripled immediately and my survivability spiked as well.

A few characters later I was playing a scion that started with Spectral Throw and switched to EK that - with pretty mediocre gear - was progressing through maps with ease and I almost never felt like I was in danger.

Cliffs: There's a massive gulf of power level between characters with tons of currency and shiny gear and those without, and then an even bigger gulf between characters who know WTF they're doing and those that don't.

Even if you were to make the game as hard as you could without making new players quit, it's still going to be mostly easy enough for a well geared character to blow through it. But since the whole driving force of the genre is improving your character with progressively better gear, it's kind of unavoidable.

I mean, I guess they could solve it by making all items bound to the account when picked up and bound to a specific character when equipped, then tone down the difficulty under the assumption that most characters are relatively ungeared, but.... yeah, no. It'd be just about the most unpopular thing they could possibly do, and wouldn't (and really, shouldn't) happen.
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03-17-2014 , 10:39 PM
I don't think anyone is advocating for further change, I think we're just observing that when Invasion opened it was possible to insta-RIP an overleveled, overgeared character to a mechanic that was way overtuned. Now that some of the invaders aren't as lethal it's still really tense but somewhat doable.

That's a good change.
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03-17-2014 , 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPHoya
I don't think anyone is advocating for further change, I think we're just observing that when Invasion opened it was possible to insta-RIP an overleveled, overgeared character to a mechanic that was way overtuned. Now that some of the invaders aren't as lethal it's still really tense but somewhat doable.

That's a good change.
There are still invasion bosses that can't be killed by a player, playing at or near level. To me that's a major problem. When you're running in a group of 6 and everyone has to run for their life, something is wrong.

The recent changes are a good step, as getting 1 shoted from off screen is bs. But there are still overtuned bosses.
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03-18-2014 , 12:55 AM
Boxes in Ambush can be quite deadly with the right combination of mods, particularly the one that freezes you.

My strategy when I pop a box is to immediately leap slam away from it, so I can fight the monsters on my own terms, of course being frozen F's that up and has killed me a few times.

It might be a good idea to carry around a "cannot be frozen" unique to wear if you come across a box that does freezing.
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03-18-2014 , 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotton Hill
Boxes in Ambush can be quite deadly with the right combination of mods, particularly the one that freezes you.

My strategy when I pop a box is to immediately leap slam away from it, so I can fight the monsters on my own terms, of course being frozen F's that up and has killed me a few times.

It might be a good idea to carry around a "cannot be frozen" unique to wear if you come across a box that does freezing.
Yeah, for sure the freezing boxes are the most deadly.

It's actually pretty annoying game design imo, which happens in a lot of ARPGs and MMOs: If one of the only ways for players to lose involves you taking control of their characters away from them, something is off.
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03-18-2014 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starvingwriter82
Yeah, for sure the freezing boxes are the most deadly.

It's actually pretty annoying game design imo, which happens in a lot of ARPGs and MMOs: If one of the only ways for players to lose involves you taking control of their characters away from them, something is off.
So you're okay with one shots in hardcore but in softcore something is off if you can die to being frozen?
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03-18-2014 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feedthabeast
So you're okay with one shots in hardcore but in softcore something is off if you can die to being frozen?
If you read my posts:

One shots that a reasonably skilled player will be able to anticipate and dodge - Sure.

One shots that come from offscreen, due to bad desync issues, or are otherwise unavoidable - no.

The theme in each case is simple: If a player has the ability to use skill to complete an encounter, that's a good thing. If the outcome of an encounter is fatal and beyond the control of the player regardless of skill level, that's poor design.
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03-18-2014 , 12:42 PM
First map was +2 rogue exiles and you get the thunderstorm woman, the whirlwind guy (easy) and the green arrow unique on dunes: intense.
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03-18-2014 , 01:18 PM
Why don't you just have thawing potions available for those boxes
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03-18-2014 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski
Why don't you just have thawing potions available for those boxes

Last edited by CPHoya; 03-18-2014 at 03:09 PM. Reason: not making fun of you sw, capturing what I imagine both our reactions to be
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03-18-2014 , 04:01 PM
How do they work?
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03-18-2014 , 05:08 PM
How do what work? Strongboxes have mods on them such as 'Detonates dead corpses' 'ignites you upon opening' 'freezes you' 'guarded by an exile' etc.

X flask of Thawing will um, thaw you, lol.
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03-18-2014 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciolist
First map was +2 rogue exiles and you get the thunderstorm woman, the whirlwind guy (easy) and the green arrow unique on dunes: intense.
Did you actually fight the storm herald bitch?
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03-18-2014 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski
Why don't you just have thawing potions available for those boxes
Sure, that works most of the time. Pretty far removed from the actual topic, but hey, it's the internet.
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03-18-2014 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski
Did you actually fight the storm herald bitch?
Of course!

Dunes and sear though, I can just run away a lot due to the space available
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03-18-2014 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski
Why don't you just have thawing potions available for those boxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPHoya
Quote:
Originally Posted by starvingwriter82
Sure, that works most of the time. Pretty far removed from the actual topic, but hey, it's the internet.
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
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03-18-2014 , 06:19 PM
How is a helpful suggestion not topical?
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03-18-2014 , 06:20 PM
lol.

I'm way too relaxed about video gaming to get into an actual fight over it.
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03-18-2014 , 06:26 PM
starvingwriter82, didn't you hear what CPHoya said about your mother?!
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03-18-2014 , 06:32 PM
HU4ORBZ
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03-18-2014 , 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciolist
starvingwriter82, didn't you hear what CPHoya said about your mother?!
I don't like to kiss and tell, but it definitely involved her Enduring Cry and my Increased Projectile Speed.

And it totally went down in Fellshrine.
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03-18-2014 , 07:48 PM
Was there a Flesh Offering and did you remember to leave your Warlord's Mark?
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03-18-2014 , 09:49 PM
She won't stop storm calling me even though I linked my multistrike with reduced duration
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03-18-2014 , 10:03 PM
Just got one shot through max resists by a level 59 rare chest while I was level 64, with full health and no movement impairing debuffs on me.

**** happens.
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03-18-2014 , 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starvingwriter82
Just got one shot through max resists by a level 59 rare chest while I was level 64, with full health and no movement impairing debuffs on me.

**** happens.
Sounds well balanced....
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