If you fold every time you're in the big blind you lose 50 BB/100 for that position. If your actual result is worse than that you should simply fold. If it is better you are doing at least something right. Few people actually make money from the big blind. To give you an idea I beat NL5 handsomely, and I lose 20BB/100 in that position.

However, your winnings in late position should be enough to overcome that. Playing on the button should be insanely profitable.

There are at least two possible explanations for your observation. First of all, people who play a million hands need to play many tables at once. This has a negative effect on the win rate. Secondly, anyone who plays a million hand at 2.5BB/100 makes 500 buy-ins. Good bankroll management dictates to move up at some point.

What win rate is sustainable obviously depends on the level. One player (chip-starr) has actually played a million hands of NL2 at 10BB/100. Whether or not this is a good idea is a different question.

Thanks, good point. If you are a say 3BB/100 winner...what is an example or guide of what you should make in EP, MP, CO, BTN, SB, BB etc?

I think there are examples of positional stats on the first page of this thread.

http://www.pokertableratings.com/sta...earch/nanonoko

apparently 5ptbb over 1 million is possible


http://www.pokertableratings.com/abs...arch/guigui_88

Lol. Poker isn't that hard. At 50nl I think over 10BB/100 is sustainable if you really wanted it. I'm taking a break from 100nl (cuz i suck so bad there) and going for the 50nl UGL (cuz i rape so hard there) so I'll post up my recent graph sometime soon.

I know I am lacking in sample size, but that's because I can't multi-task nor multi-table along with millions other reasons. But honestly, variance isn't as big a deal as you guys think. Most of them come from tilt and inattentiveness during hands. Fix those two and you shouldn't need a million hands to be sure of your winrate.



So yes, large winrates exist and are sustainable. For most people however, they prefer $/hr than BB/100.

And also, yes this is a brag post. Sorry in advance guys!

I am losing at 5NL and really don't know why. I am at -0.54 bb/100 after about 85k hands. If someone would look at my stats and tell me what looks like an obvious leak, i would appreciate it.

Basic stats:



Positional stats:



My most losing hands (I am losing most with AK and TT):



Graph:

lol its 8k hands

You ROCK Derek!!! Where does this talent of yours come from?

You should prolly list yourself in the coaching thread and let the moneis really flow in.

We got a real natural here!

Thanks, even if it is sarcasm. But to reply to your advice about coaching, I'll pass. Even if I thought I was good enough to coach (which I don't), I play for the reason most people play games. And it isn't for the money. If it was, I'd probably strive to be an investment banker or something.

And where does all this talent come from? From hard work in my opinion. Also, we share different goals (probably). You may focus on the hourly. I focus on my winrate and climbing in stakes. In that regard, I'd say I'm still far off from where the truly talented are. So... me a natural? Not quite.

Be more optimistic. If you think 10BB/100 is truly so godlike, you're underestimating yourself.

You're so full of $hit. No one on this planet runs at 10BB/100 over a large sample. I don't care what stakes or how good they are.

And LOL at your sample size.

Hey guys I'm in need of some help, currently I've been really struggling at 10NL

lmfao the onl way i think someone could make that much was if they dropped down like 6 stake levels and like 4 tabled. for example like a 200 NL player playing 2NL or something. But why on earth wold anyone do that? Most ridiculous thing ever

looks fine, your went to showdown is really low, which means you're probably folding the best hand too often, but 13k hands doesnt really mean anything

Please tell me, what have I said that I am "so full of $hit". No one on this planet (or I think no one) runs at 10BB/100 over a large sample because if they crush the game that well, they usually move up well before they get that large sample. But I'm trying to argue that it is possible and sustainable over a large sample. I guess it can't be proven though, since no one would do it without a good incentive to. But honestly, why do you guys play poker? I thought poker players started playing poker from a competitive drive. Yet you guys close yourselves up to such a horrible mindset. "This is impossible. No one's ever done it before. I doubt that it is possible." Again, stop underestimating yourselves. It's really sad. Do you also think a human being doing 10k pushups in one sitting is impossible? Because it's been done. And you know why most of us think its impossible? Because human beings create superficial limits for themselves. But we always break past records, don't we? It only takes a person to believe they can do it. For the rest, they can only follow paths that these thought-to-be superhumans have already fought through.

Lacking sleep, so I might be speaking jibberish. But I stand by what I said. 10BB/100 is not some epic unachievable winrate by any means.

Edit: Actually, tell you what. If you and all the other unbelievers want to put in money to see if I'm right or wrong, I'm okay with that. I know I said money isn't really a big deal for me, but it would give me a good incentive to try test this out for you guys, as it will take me probably a whole month to complete. $1k @ 1:1? 50k hands in January with a 10BB/100? Or is that still a "LOL sample size" for you? Let me know if you are still interested. Should help build your bankroll as it is massively +EV for you if you think no one on this planet can achieve it.

MyHandle -

--tighten gap between vpip/pfr. shoot for ~2.5%-3.5%

--tighten up blinds play. you play way too much from both spots and you do so by cold calling mostly. fold more and 3bet more.

--loosen up from CO. you can play quite a few more hands than you are.

--you cbet too much. cbetting is a winning play, but there are boards that are bad to cbet. in postion, sometimes you should just take the free card and oop sometimes you should just c/f. and sometimes c/r is better than leading. work on this a bit.

feel good about your play in general - you are a few tweaks away from having good results. and these seem like some easy things to try.

good luck!

oh and with regards to AK and TT. consider not playing them so aggressive (esp AK, from your stats) preflop, in position. you end up folding out worse, often dominated hands, or you get 4bet and then stack off either flipping against QQ or crushed by KK/AA or splitting with AK.

Played to death - i think 80% flop cbet is really too high. 65%-75% is better. tighten up blinds play, too. it looks like you steal too much from SB and maybe defend BB too much.

Are we talking "poker tracker big bets" here? Are we talking a "real" limit - such as $25NL and up?

If so, I'll bet you the $1000 that you cannot maintain 10ptbb/100 hands over a 31-day, 50K, consecutive hand sample (still an LOL sample by the way).

We need an escrow - someone on here that you trust. Must be verified by PTR as databases can be manipulated. Given that PTR can miss hands, if your data shows 10ptbb/100 hands and PTR is not quite there (shows ~9) - that's good enough for me.

Limit must be 25NL or greater. Must be 50K consecutive hands. Money must be escrowed with a third party. 50K hands must be played within a 31-day period. Less than 50K hands is an automatic loss.

Also you are still stuck at 5NL. Do you really have any knowledge of what kind of winrate is possible at 50NL? In the 85k hands you were stuck in 5NL, I breezed by from 2NL to 100NL. So yeah, go ahead and LOL at my sample size. I guess I just caught extremely good variance to move up so quick. As for you though, keep up that grinding. In the long run, you should pull out ahead right?

Sorry for being a dick, but you started it.

hey, lets end the e-peen contest.....

Yes, 10ptbb/100. And yes, 25NL+. Just for that, I want to try 25NL lol. Anyways, first I'll have to test if PTR is working well with my hands. Currently, it doesn't upload any of my hands. You can compare my session stats picture to my PTR session page as proof. So, I'll test my PTR page near the end of December (I think the problem only started recently, so it should be temporary). Also, I'd be happy if either mpethy or split escrowed for us, assuming they can.

In case I forget about 2p2 for a while (obviously I don't post too much), you can contact me and remind me near the end of December on my AIM screen name "derekeom". But I'll probably stick around this thread until all this rage dies out lol.

Yep, I am working on that. So, if I have a VPIP of say 12%, should I shoot for 9% PFR, or should I go even tighter on my VPIP?

3bet the button stealers more?

Yeah this is one thing I have wondered about. Can you give me a range for opening from the CO when no one else has raised? And how about cold calling and 3bet ranges from there??

Yeah I know it's a bit high. It seems that knowing when to cbet and when not is a bit of an art.

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

Should I cold call with AK more in position? If there is a raiser and another caller, should I always 3bet trying to isolate to one opponent (since AK sucks in a multi-way pot)?

Thanks again.

I will apologize to you for saying you're full of $hit. I was on major tilt from dropping a few buy-ins when I said that. And you were nice enough to take the time to write a lengthy PM critiquing my play, so I will take back what I said.

However, I still am quite skeptical anyone can keep a 10 BB/100 winrate for any significant sample size. But that's neither here nor there and not an argument I care to get into. I am only here to get critique on my lowly $5NL play.