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*** The Official We 'March' To The Beat Of A Different Drummer Chat Thread***(Use Spoilers ITT) *** The Official We 'March' To The Beat Of A Different Drummer Chat Thread***(Use Spoilers ITT)

03-28-2010 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocksavage1
vs. a 12/5 nit. My open is prob. a little loose given his stack size, but he's folding most of the time.

Probably should clarify: barreling the turn is pretty good, and is probably even better, as a bluff with my hand because it's a good scare card. My thoughts were that this guy would would peel the flop with some Adxd hands - I don't think he raises those hands often. Still, a big part of his flop calling range is PP up to QQ - his 3bet % is under 1%. After he checked back the turn, I figured his range was pretty weak, but that I wouldn't win a SD - that's debatable because I do have second pair, but I think he has an OP to the 8 a lot given his line, and I obv. can't c/c.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

MP2 ($52.05)
MP3 ($100.50)
Hero (CO) ($100)
Button ($54.45)
SB ($185.50)
BB ($100)
UTG ($146.90)
UTG+1 ($127.75)
MP1 ($52.65)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 8
5 folds, Hero bets $3, Button calls $3, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($10) 6, 8, 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6.25, Button calls $6.25, 1 fold

Turn: ($22.50) A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($22.50) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $18, 1 fold

Total pot: $22.50
Main pot: $22.50 won by Hero

Results:
Hero had 10, 8 (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero won $39.40
I revised my comments so they make a little more sense. Betting the turn is likely more optimal, but it still worked out because the villain is bad. That's the nice thing about playing against bad players - we can take sub-optimal lines and still win.

Barreling the turn is pretty good, and is probably a better line, as a bluff/capitalize on dead money/hand protection bet because it's a good scare card. My thoughts were that this guy would would peel the flop with some Adxd hands - I don't think he raises those hands often. That being said, there are more combos of PPs than Adxd in his range and other random crap that will fold to a turn barrel. One other consideration, is that calling the turn with a marginal made hand is harder for the villain because he has to worry about me firing the river. If he calls the turn we have to c/f the river unimproved. After he checked back the turn, I figured his range was pretty weak, but that I wouldn't win a SD - I guess that's somewhat debatable because I do have second pair, but I think he has an OP to the 8 a lot given his line, and I obv. can't check/call because his bluffing range is narrow given the board texture.
03-28-2010 , 12:40 PM
i kinda like my top pair here tbh and i'm not too confident he folds 9s or ts
03-28-2010 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrrth
i kinda like my top pair here tbh and i'm not too confident he folds 9s or ts
I don't have TP, but it's debatable how much SD value I have. I'm not sure why you think this type of player wouldn't fold 99/TT/JJ. The board has an OC to those hands, and the river completed a flush and str8.

edit: against a trickier/better player you could argue for a c/c river line because their bluffing range widens on wet/scary board textures. However, against a nit that is not the case.

Last edited by brocksavage1; 03-28-2010 at 01:05 PM.
03-28-2010 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equus asinus
LOL, first lovers quarrel huh? Glad everything worked out. Just keep in mind, if you have to crash here there is an ummmm "payment system."
Don't worry bro, i put out

Quote:
Originally Posted by dashman
Equus and springsteen, both you guys live in Minnesota?? Just curious as I am moving back to northern indiana in a few weeks
Naw, he lives in Arizona, as does my GF.

Hope the move goes well

EDIT: Brock, no poker in the chat thread, unless accompanied by the sexies
03-28-2010 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocksavage1
I don't have TP, but it's debatable how much SD value I have. I'm not sure why you think this type of player wouldn't fold 99/TT/JJ. The board has an OC to those hands, and the river completed a flush and str8.

edit: against a trickier/better player you could argue for a c/c river line because their bluffing range widens on wet/scary board textures. However, against a nit that is not the case.
These were basically my exact thoughts on the hand.

I think you played it very well against a 12/5. Against a more aggro player I think you have to either give up on the turn or barrel it, because if you check it you are getting bet at and now we have to check/guess on the turn and check/guess on the river.
03-28-2010 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge
I think you played it very well against a 12/5. Against a more aggro player I think you have to either give up on the turn or barrel it, because if you check it you are getting bet at and now we have to check/guess on the turn and check/guess on the river.
I agree. I think it's bet or c/f on the turn against an aggro player. I probably fire because the flop flatting range is much wider than a 12/5 player and we have good river bluff cards. Barreling against the nit might be better too - while he does have a tighter flatting range these guys usually freeze up when an A hits the turn.
03-28-2010 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by springsteen87
EDIT: Brock, no poker in the chat thread, unless accompanied by the sexies
The only place I talk strat is in the chat thread because mostly good players read this thread...
03-28-2010 , 03:04 PM
If we are checking the turn, why not c/c the river?? You think a 12/5 will want to bluff catch with 89/55??? He most likely won't and yes he most likely won't bluff either when checked to but he might and if he is bluff catching with a hand we are almost always beat by 99/TT and could even have 78/67.
03-28-2010 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashman
If we are checking the turn, why not c/c the river?? You think a 12/5 will want to bluff catch with 89/55??? He most likely won't and yes he most likely won't bluff either when checked to but he might and if he is bluff catching with a hand we are almost always beat by 99/TT and could even have 78/67.

Turning a made into a bluff......


c/c is the worst river line you can take against this type of player. They don't value bet thinly and don't bluff enough to make c/c +EV. I was giving Venice an example of turning a made hand into a bluff, which means I'm not vbetting the river. I'm bluffing because his range appears weak and the board is favourable to fold out OPs to the 8, which have more SD value than my hand.
03-28-2010 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocksavage1

Turning a made into a bluff......


c/c is the worst river line you can take against this type of player. They don't value bet thinly and don't bluff enough to make c/c +EV. I was giving Venice an example of turning a made hand into a bluff, which means I'm not vbetting the river. I'm bluffing because his range appears weak and the board is favourable to fold out OPs to the 8, which have more SD value than my hand.
I'm good at getting called with a better hand in this situation. Brocksavage is right though, you never want to get called so it is a bluff.
03-28-2010 , 05:29 PM
lol......I understand we are turning our hand into a bluff on the river but why not bluff the A instead?
03-28-2010 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashman
lol......I understand we are turning our hand into a bluff on the river but why not bluff the A instead?
I hate to see reading comp. because I read stuff fast too.... Go back and read my posts. Betting the turn is could definitely be better (and is def. better against a solid player), but I can pull the pot out because this villain is a bad nit.
03-29-2010 , 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocksavage1
I hate to see reading comp. because I read stuff fast too.... Go back and read my posts. Betting the turn is could definitely be better (and is def. better against a solid player), but I can pull the pot out because this villain is a bad nit.
Yeah I read them, I was just commenting on why people thought betting the river was better than betting the turn. Overall it's probably close to neutral against said nit player, betting both spots.

Against a 12/5 we prob never have to balance against but if you would need to, what level do you think that needs to start at 100, 200nl??

Last edited by dashman; 03-29-2010 at 12:19 AM.
03-29-2010 , 12:18 AM
Anyone know if HEM or PT3 work on Ubuntu? Or of any trackers/huds that do?

I just realized I can run Full Tilt through Wine.
03-29-2010 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hackers238
Anyone know if HEM or PT3 work on Ubuntu? Or of any trackers/huds that do?

I just realized I can run Full Tilt through Wine.
yeah you can run ftp and pstars through wine but i have been looking for a tracker that works with ubuntu for a while now and i have thus far come up empty. well not completely, the best thing i was able to find is this:

http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/li...ertracker.html

no idea if it works though.
03-29-2010 , 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard
yeah you can run ftp and pstars through wine but i have been looking for a tracker that works with ubuntu for a while now and i have thus far come up empty. well not completely, the best thing i was able to find is this:

http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/li...ertracker.html

no idea if it works though.
Thanks... I've been playing around with it and I'm note sure FT through wine is really playable enough for me (tables don't pop to the top, you have to select the bet amount textfield to change it.

I'll probably just keep playing on windows for now
03-29-2010 , 01:17 AM
yeah i wasnt even aware that ftp had a wine until you mentioned it. stars had a top rated one at one point and still has a highly rated one but there are...glitches. poker is why i decided to get a windows machine fwiw. i have an ubuntu netbook but i think im going to have to put Windows or OSX on it if i want to play poker in the future with it.
03-29-2010 , 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hackers238
Anyone know if HEM or PT3 work on Ubuntu? Or of any trackers/huds that do?
Try fpdb. For proper installation instructions: http://****************/apps/mediawik...tall_in_Ubuntu and to make the initial install relatively easy, just download the latest .deb package.
03-29-2010 , 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashman
Yeah I read them, I was just commenting on why people thought betting the river was better than betting the turn. Overall it's probably close to neutral against said nit player, betting both spots.

Against a 12/5 we prob never have to balance against but if you would need to, what level do you think that needs to start at 100, 200nl??
200NL. 100NL has lots of bad players and bad regs.
03-29-2010 , 08:29 AM
Haven't tried a new fpdb release for a few months, but I remember there to be a lot of glitches (neither graphs nor session overviews worked, some HUD stats were obviously incorrect), plus I didn't really have a smooth experience with Full Tilt in wine (PokerStars was pretty damn fine though). Holdem Manager is the main reason I installed Windows in a VirtualBox, now I just play inside that all the time. That's not reasonable if you're running a netbook though
03-29-2010 , 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyj
These are people we are dying to get onto FTP and PS when/if the post UIGEA floodgates open.
Haha, the first thing I thought was "Too bad these girls are not playing poker"

Last edited by ready 2 win; 03-29-2010 at 10:31 AM.
03-29-2010 , 04:07 PM
This is the best "wtf?" face I've ever seen Todd Brunson make.
03-30-2010 , 12:20 AM
8-hour bump.
03-30-2010 , 10:09 AM
10 hour bump
03-30-2010 , 10:58 AM
Taxes blow, and I'm doing it wrong.

Worse, I haven't figured out how to do it right yet.

      
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