pwns,

the r word is hurtful to indigenous people. i know this first hand. to say it's not is either racist or ignorant.

i think there are a lot of people who just don't know any better. to me 'ignorant' is not necessarily a bad word.

just last year, there was an old white man at the casino who had an r word sweatshirt on. i told him it was hurtful. he was shocked. he had no idea. he took off the sweatshirt and threw it in the garbage right there and then.

but trump says racist stuff over and over and over. in his case it's not just ignorance. he might not know that it's hurtful to indigenous people, but if he did know he still wouldn't care.

I don't usually like your analogies but this one is good.

I would say that if Trump cared about this he would also care about the fact that Native American groups think the names should be changed. I think more accurately the opinions of those groups are just irrelevant to Trump. Their identity and political concerns can be coopted on a whim to get in a cheap dig at a political opponent.

Mostly when people say it's racist they just mean that he's tweeting opposition to changing the names (and support for the confederate flag, and confederate monuments, and ...), but since the names are racist it's wrong to oppose changing them. But if you're looking for something deeper in the way he thinks about the issue, I think the above might be useful.

we only have 1 party in this country. It has 2 factions that are mostly just a difference in branding/marketing

I obviously don't think he cares in that sense. Is it commonly accepted the term Indians is racist? In all contexts whenever used (including this one).

Filthy is probably mostly right though. Ill never really understand why it's found offensive other than abstractly.

I do believe people have various complaints about the word itself, but I was a little imprecise. I didn't mean that the word "Indian" is particularly racist in and of itself. I don't think it's a slur, for example. I meant that naming a baseball team the Indians or the Redskins, and using stereotyped mascots, involves a certain kind of racism. I actually tend to prefer to use more nuanced terms, so I might say that the problem with it is mostly the stereotyping and othering of those groups, particularly in connection with the ugly history of American genocide against native Americans.

it definitely sounds deliberately ignorant and awkward since the word is normally used to refer to people from India

I don't think it's always considered a racist term. You hear terms like "Indian Casino", Chumash Indians, Blackfoot Indians, etc.

I do think its use here has racist overtones

I also think we should get away from it completely

Karen is getting really aggro really quick. Feel like it will go from a meme making fun of thinking it's a big deal to an actual deal very quickly.

My very anecdotal experience is native Americans don't care about the term Indian much at all, like black people being called black, but may use it to troll white people sometimes.

They may care about their actual tribe or Indian given name, though.

generally speaking indigenous people don't like to be called indians. that's all that should matter, right? i mean it shouldn't really matter if white people think it's racist or not, right?

many aren't that upset by it. but generally speaking the specific tribe is the most preferred, navajo, lakota, cheyenne, etc...

Thanks for the post. To some degree groups want to "other" themselves.

Vaguely speaking do you think anyone can partake in any culture aspect assuming they do so in good faith? Or do you need some sort of real connection (this is not really related).

I don't really like the term native either. It means being born here. I was born here. I don't mind indigenous since it's not used in other contexts and means something like "ancestrally native" which is different.

Every since I start to know now Indians from India it's become more awkward to use Indian for native American. Then again I can almost always parse what people mean.

i've heard "i'm not from india. why the f*ck are you calling me indian? i don't want to be called indian"

so when you disrespect a people, it is racist.

i mean it makes as much sense to call you indian as to call a lakota indian.

and generally speaking, white people care less about being called out of their name than other groups. if your people were genocided by lakota, you would probably be more sensitive if lakota all called you indians after you said you don't want to be called indians.

Yeah, "indigenous" would have been a good choice in my posts.

Bobo, Kiosk, Mark_K all thought the 14/88 stuff was just paranoia or something

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are asking.

It is a racist stance to be against the Cleveland baseball team and Washington football team changing their name. Is that what you are asking about?

Yeah they are usually hit or miss

The issue is not with the term "Indian". The issue is with thinking its ok to name a baseball team "The Indians" and then have an incredibly racist mascot and marketing surrounding that.

Bomani Jones once wore a shirt on TV to make this point:



Pretty sure the producers ended up asking him to zip up the sweatshirt because they said his t-shirt was offensive.

And ftr, that tweet right there just goes to show how racist and horrible of a candidate Warren would have been

I mean no one cares about that shirt, obviously.

Everyone loved the fighting whities team name.

I would count that as one half participant.

Is your stance that the Cleveland and Washington names/mascots are not racist?

You can throw mets in there too given he still believes that any pro-nazi Trump says is just an accident or unfortunate choice of words or whatever euphemism he uses

Eh I think the crux may be the insurmountability of proving something like this scientifically.

Eyebooger is the science guy so I should ask him.