POG Politics Thread - Page 1149 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

Do people think the perception humans have of something is relevant? Like if people perceive there is a chance they will get caught by police ergo they are less likely to do bad stuff, would that count?

If you apply similar logic to something like happiness or equality it could get kind of strange.

https://undark.org/2016/05/16/deterr...-reduce-crime/

07-06-2020 , 01:41 PM

#28702

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Deterrence has not shown to be an effective method of reducing crime. Even IANAW agrees with me on that.

07-06-2020 , 01:41 PM

#28703

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,078

I'm not sure about numbers of police officers. I think I've posted all the interesting stuff I've read about police reform lately in this thread.

07-06-2020 , 01:44 PM

#28704

Birdman10687

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

There has to be some meta data out there about police in cities number of police and crap like that. Even between countries.

Whereas well named when you need him.

I posted a study that analyzed this very thing--specifically when the NYPD went on strike for like a week. Not only did crime not go up, it actually went down. And the study even accounted for the fact that "of course crime went down, cops weren't there to be arresting people to show crime was happening".

07-06-2020 , 01:47 PM

#28705

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

This would mean things like eliminating poverty, providing people with access to basic needs like food, shelter, clean water, education, healthcare. Instead of locking people in jail for using heroin, you would provide them with access to clinics and detox centers.

Can you abolish police without doing this?

07-06-2020 , 01:49 PM

#28706

filthyvermin

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with covid cases exploding, if there are lots of deaths, and even more economic ruin, and trump out there leading the charge in botching the response, it's gonna be impossible for him to win an election after that.

i know lol polls, but already the polls are heavily against trump

07-06-2020 , 01:50 PM

#28707

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by filthyvermin

That's why they are going to cheat.

07-06-2020 , 01:52 PM

#28708

Birdman10687

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

Can you abolish police without doing this?

Yes...I've said it 100 times.

The police don't actually stop the things that eliminating poverty would fix.

You are looking at it like "here is this bad thing and there are two solutions: cops and eliminating poverty. Cops has drawbacks so lets use the other solution that is better, but we need it in place before we eliminate the cops."

The reality is that the cops aren't a solution whatsoever. Eliminating poverty IS a solution.

In fact, cops entire purpose is actually to ENFORCE poverty--the very cause of the thing we are trying to eliminate!

07-06-2020 , 01:55 PM

#28709

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

It's like you are sick and someone says we need to do blood letting to fix you. Then a doctor comes along and says "hey you just have a bacterial infection, these antibiotics will help" and you are worried that we have to get on the antibiotics before we stop the blood letting. You don't. The blood letting is actually probably making it worse.

07-06-2020 , 01:56 PM

#28710

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

https://undark.org/2016/05/16/deterr...-reduce-crime/

Interesting. I posted an article a while back that sorta said the opposite, although that was more of a q and a with people and what motivated them.

Actually it varied depending on the people asked and type of crime.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1594058349852

What a link. I definitely just glanced through it out of laziness.

Reading the abstract it says a decent amount more what you said I believe.

Last edited by pwnsall; 07-06-2020 at 02:01 PM.

07-06-2020 , 02:17 PM

#28711

filthyvermin

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remember when people said trump could shoot someone in time's square and get elected? i think now it's the opposite. whoever runs against trump could shoot someone in time's square and still get elected. it doesn't matter how awful trump's opponent is. there might not be a person in this country who couldn't beat trump right now, literally the worst person you can think of, would probably win an election, as long as they were eligible

that's our two party system.

07-06-2020 , 02:18 PM

#28712

filthyvermin

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harvey weinstein might be the most unelectable, but he'd probably beat trump just on covid alone

07-06-2020 , 02:28 PM

#28713

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

That's why they are going to cheat.

Oh, and also he's going to turn the racism up to 11.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...03174008303616

07-06-2020 , 02:32 PM

#28714

chim17

Snowboarding concerts and punk music

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 56,128

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

I don't want to read

This sums up your entire online existence. You’ve been provided with resources that answers every question you have. Repeatedly. By people who know more than anyone here. Experts. You don’t want to learn and grow, though. You want to argue. You’re comfortable with the role you play in all this. You have no interest in new positions or other views.

The very fact you want Birds answer when you’ve been provided with answers from people who have far more expertise than him proves this.

07-06-2020 , 02:45 PM

#28715

chim17

Snowboarding concerts and punk music

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 56,128

Trump is sure effective at ruling up the white supremacists. It’s quite an art. Tweets seem to be more and more direct.

07-06-2020 , 02:51 PM

#28716

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by chim17

Trump is sure effective at ruling up the white supremacists. It’s quite an art. Tweets seem to be more and more direct.

People itt will tell you that him being racist is just a paranoid conspiracy or a clever ploy by Trump to make the left look stupid

07-06-2020 , 02:56 PM

#28717

kokiri

ffermwr moch

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 52,228

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

I think its probably a fair criticism that sometimes I cross the line and say things that are mean.

But I also think its important to realize that when you are discussing politics, things are necessarily going to get personal--after all we are talking about people's varying ideas of what is right and wrong. That is just the reality of the situation. Even more so, some things that aren't meant to be personal will be taken as personal by people simply because it is about an idea or view that plays a large part in how a person views themselves.

How many times did bigger get super offended and feel like he was being personally attacked when people weren't intending to do any such thing?

Another way of looking at it would be to say that if you say things that get people's backs up, then they won't listen to you whether you're right or not, so any conversation that is more than just broadcast mode ought to give some thought to the listener and how to get them to hear what you're trying to say.

Last edited by kokiri; 07-06-2020 at 03:03 PM.

07-06-2020 , 03:01 PM

#28718

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

People itt will tell you that him being racist is just a paranoid conspiracy or a clever ploy by Trump to make the left look stupid

I made a post something like the second part of this but it was more a theory of a strategy someone could employ, not something I think he was overtly doing.

07-06-2020 , 03:03 PM

#28719

kokiri

ffermwr moch

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 52,228

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

People itt will tell you that him being racist is just a paranoid conspiracy or a clever ploy by Trump to make the left look stupid

Really? Anyone other than VMF and LB? Cos I think pretty much everyone else is on board with he's racist and his entourage involve a lot of really racist racists to a greater or lesser extent. Maybe not mets.

07-06-2020 , 03:03 PM

#28720

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,685

I sorta want him to tweet something like "We are FINALLY getting rid of these Indian symbols that have NO place in this GREAT NATION" and see how people reply.

07-06-2020 , 03:05 PM

#28721

pwnsall

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Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,685

I actually can't even passively understand how that's supposed to be a racist tweet, lol

It's clearly mocking white people who try to speak for real Native Americans. It even says those names are strength. Most times I can at least passively understand but I really can't on this one unless I'm missing some context.

07-06-2020 , 03:06 PM

#28722

filthyvermin

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07-06-2020 , 03:08 PM

#28723

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Quote:

Originally Posted by chim17

Trump is sure effective at ruling up the white supremacists. It’s quite an art. Tweets seem to be more and more direct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

People itt will tell you that him being racist is just a paranoid conspiracy or a clever ploy by Trump to make the left look stupid

Getting back to this why aren't things like this considered "toxic". The idea that if you even question the narrative that some people just "get" you must be stupid or white supremacist or something?

I mean surely the idea is some sort of shaming into conformity or proactively stating your case as if anyone going against it is "crazy"

07-06-2020 , 03:10 PM

#28724

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,685

Getting way back to mets and single parents btw elon and trump are both multiple wives with multiple children from them people.

07-06-2020 , 03:11 PM

#28725

filthyvermin

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 60,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

he says "indians" for one thing. "indians.... must be really angry" he knows indigenous, or native are the preferred terms. but he likes to show off his lack of compassion.

and he's saying the indigenous community should like the racist names of the teams, when indigenous people have been saying for decades that the mascots are hurtful.

think of it if you changed the words and people to another group... "the coloreds must be really angry" about getting rid of all the confederate statues.

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