POG Politics Thread - Page 1160 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

Driving in NYC is a nightmare. I'd rather drive in LA hands down. I wouldn't even consider it in Manhattan. Leave your car in Brooklyn and just take the subway or hoof it.

07-09-2020 , 11:09 PM

#28977

VoraciousReader

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 34,276

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Driving in NYC is a nightmare. I'd rather drive in LA hands down. I wouldn't even consider it in Manhattan. Leave your car in Brooklyn and just take the subway or hoof it.

My dad and stepmother live in Manhattan. They have a car. It costs almost as much as my monthly rent to garage the stupid thing. And they have to give an hour's notice when they want to take it out.

And it's such a pain to drive anywhere that they only use it when going outside the city. When they want to run errands like buying a new watch battery, they just wait and do them when they come to visit me in KC.

07-09-2020 , 11:15 PM

#28978

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,289

And then if you do leave the city, it costs $20 in tolls to drive it back. They'd probably save money just renting one for when they need it.

07-09-2020 , 11:38 PM

#28979

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,686

Big cities sound awful

07-09-2020 , 11:51 PM

#28980

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,289

Part of the advantage of a place like NYC is precisely the fact that you don't need a car. The disadvantage is that you're stuck there.

07-09-2020 , 11:54 PM

#28981

VoraciousReader

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 34,276

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Big cities sound awful

They loved it, pre-Corona virus.

Now pretty much everything they loved about it is a no-go for the foreseeable future.

07-10-2020 , 12:21 AM

#28982

filthyvermin

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 60,201

6 months ago LA was paradise. now i'm trying to move out

07-10-2020 , 03:15 AM

#28983

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

What do other people just have to comment on/defend?

Birdman Cuba /china
Kokiri ivory tower elitism
Pwns racism
Ianaww criminal justice system

Master: Chipotle

07-10-2020 , 02:28 PM

#28984

iamnotawerewolf

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

I am not looking for unbiased media or even diverse media. I am looking for media with a proletarian class character.

This is my most basic issue with Marxism, fwiw, aside from the tankie blindspot.

Being "unbiased" may be fatally aspirational (never realized), but it's better to accomplish a goal in part than to elide it altogether. Here we run again into the "the perfect is the enemy" problem.

Given the impossibility of truly unbiased media, the maintenance of diversity provides a check on reporting biases.

07-10-2020 , 02:33 PM

#28985

iamnotawerewolf

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

The commitment to the "class character" social axis at the exclusion of all others is how this problem inures systemically in Marxism.

This is not to say that I don't find this axis extant or relevant; I absolutely do.

Backing into the context of media, the proletarian perspective is an crucial one, but it's not the only one.

An exclusive focus on proletarian issues/perspectives evinces an anti-humanist trend in Marxist thought - if you aren't a worker, you don't matter.

Last edited by iamnotawerewolf; 07-10-2020 at 02:39 PM.

07-10-2020 , 02:37 PM

#28986

VoraciousReader

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Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 34,276

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

Adding a media source with the point of view of a true member of the proletariat WOULD be diversity. In fact, given how easy it is for the owner class to promulgate its ideas in our current society, if the entire press was restricted to ONLY publishing content from the point of view of the worker, there would still be PLENTY of diversity.

07-10-2020 , 02:42 PM

#28987

iamnotawerewolf

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoraciousReader

Adding a media source with the point of view of a true member of the proletariat WOULD be diversity.

Agree.

Quote:

In fact, given how easy it is for the owner class to promulgate its ideas in our current society, if the entire press was restricted to ONLY publishing content from the point of view of the worker, there would still be PLENTY of diversity.

Somewhat agree. There is a diversity of worker experiences, but of course there is non-worker experience.

07-10-2020 , 02:45 PM

#28988

iamnotawerewolf

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Right now the imbalance is problematically drastic, no doubt.

07-10-2020 , 02:48 PM

#28989

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

This is my most basic issue with Marxism, fwiw, aside from the tankie blindspot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

An exclusive focus on proletarian issues/perspectives evinces an anti-humanist trend in Marxist thought - if you aren't a worker, you don't matter.

maybe not such an "aside" after all

07-10-2020 , 02:50 PM

#28990

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

what does “maintenance of diversity” mean?

07-10-2020 , 02:52 PM

#28991

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

IANAW, are you saying you feel like marxism is discriminatory against the bourgeoisie?

07-10-2020 , 02:57 PM

#28992

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

The commitment to the "class character" social axis at the exclusion of all others is how this problem inures systemically in Marxism.

This is not to say that I don't find this axis extant or relevant; I absolutely do.

Backing into the context of media, the proletarian perspective is an crucial one, but it's not the only one.

An exclusive focus on proletarian issues/perspectives evinces an anti-humanist trend in Marxist thought - if you aren't a worker, you don't matter.

I feel like this is a pretty fundamental misunderstanding in what a "proletarian" class character is. Unless you mean you are worried that rich people won't have a voice?

07-10-2020 , 02:59 PM

#28993

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoraciousReader

basically VR hit the nail on the head

The only "diversity" you lose would be the bourgeoisie--and who cares about their point of view? They shouldn't exist.

07-10-2020 , 03:08 PM

#28994

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,686

I think it's been pretty clear at this point its easy to create faux diversity.

07-10-2020 , 03:10 PM

#28995

filthyvermin

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 60,201

back to the topic of what to call indigenous people, if anyone is interested here is good, long article by an indigenous journalist, and indigenous people talking about their thoughts

https://indiancountrytoday.com/archi...GU6X3FTVdMi9EQ

cliffs: most people prefer to be called by their tribe name, then indigenous. basically no one will be offended by those. some use native american(some are offended by that because it's a colonial term), and some are fine with indian.

07-10-2020 , 03:11 PM

#28996

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,686

Lots of people seem to think diversity is only skin deep.

07-10-2020 , 03:13 PM

#28997

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

I think it's been pretty clear at this point its easy to create faux diversity.

yeah

Quote:

West told CNN host Anderson Cooper that what is going on is rebellion to a failed capitalist economy that does not protect the people. West, a professor, denounced the neoliberal wing of the Democratic party that is all about "black faces in high places" but not actual change. The professor remarked even those black faces often lose legitimacy because they ingriatiate themselves into the establishment neo-liberal Democratic party.

07-10-2020 , 03:14 PM

#28998

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

In defense of the status quo, the bourgeoisie has made a concerted effort to separate the liberation of women, black people, and other oppressed minorities with to abolition of capitalism.

07-10-2020 , 03:18 PM

#28999

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,686

Pretty sure ianaww means something like diversity of ideas which class or race or gender etc. may be used as a proxy for in some cases. So you to to maintain this diversity of ideas or something.

Also assuming he meant proletariat as strictly meaning working class ie not stay at home moms or kids or elderly or people not working.

Probably shouldn't speak for him but that's vaguely how I read it.

07-10-2020 , 03:26 PM

#29000

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Yeah I mean obviously stay at home mom's are members of the working class--they perform labor and are just unpaid for it. Retired people don't stop being proletariat when they retire. I mean maybe that is what IANAW meant, but it just requires a very superficial reading of what proletarian means.

Philosophy can be demanding sometimes in that it requires you to engage with the ideas a little bit.

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