hey john while you contact your friend christine,

ask her about the 3k that is owed to the 20 of us

and maybe she can give you tips on how to convert your website to a poker supply store like she did to her website.

Christine come out come out wherever you are?

What don't want to join the judge, hey i have a question for you since you always claimed your here for the players and not for the money, and since you claimed you love hosting your poker games at your house, why not host the 3k you promised at your home.

You really don't think people are gonna let you forget do you?

john your so full of **** i think i just may have to come visit you at ttj this weekend, how can you say you never met with Christine? More lies just like your coop but your business licensed is issued as what again?


Please what does it say on your application for the city of Phoenix Buisness license

Oh joy! A secret shopper?

QK and i have never met. Prove we did and you win TTJ. I dont know what you want me to say, but keep goading me on that's fine.

The cooperative cannot be applied for until we have been established for a year. I have stated this before.

Then WHY in the world would YOU post their picture on YOUR website ?

Kind of hypocritical isnt it?

We have plenty of members that we don't post without permission, review, and it's not a big deal. Is it such a crime to say we respect their privacy as such?

People have all sorts of reasons to not want their name, image or likeness used without their permission. We had Tim's permission for that one image cuz it's a great shot and to blur him out would kinda ruin it. Now you've ruined it by exploiting it with your own issues.

You still haven't answered the question. Why am i the only one violating your players privacy when you had the picture posted on the web first.

as for "ruining and exploiting"
Cmon, it was funny, admit it.

Yawn

I don't know why you are the only one violating our player's privacy. It looks like fun, I'm not sure why more people aren't doing it. The smart money is on ignorance though... you just didn't know you were breaking the law and ruining people's lives with your antics. I forgive you, but I don't know if the photographer or the members who's images you've stolen, manipulated, and copied illegally without permission will be as lenient.

Ya, that's right! You've committed a crime!

Unlike you, I have the photographers permission to use the image on our website. I purchased that license for 25¢ per year. And I have a receipt and fully executed contract to prove it. What do you have, a free account on some photo sight where you store your ill-gotten gains? Oh the horror! I don't even want to know more! Make it stop!

Unlike you I also have the release signatures from the members pictured that grants me their individual and exclusive permission to use their image and likeness for promotional purposes.

But you oobee... you don't care about privacy or permission. You just think about yourself and how cool and funny all your twoplustwo nittybuds will think you are for your cleverness.

No oober, you'd rather steal images, and infringe on other's rights without any concern about any repercussions. Ask me, you're worse than any poker club owner could ever be. Are all of your contact sheets soaked-in-blood?

You do not have either the photographer's permission or the subject's signature release, and you sir (not to sound at all nitty) are committing a crime by stealing and infringing on people's privacy without their permission.

You use their images for your own personal gain, benefit, realized or unrealized, intended or unintended, accidentally or on purpose. You are a bad bad man UbinTook, as evil and corrupt as they come. Good thing you don't run a poker room, or you'd be dead in the water right now.

C'mon forum! Let's dog pile on the hypocrite Oobie, the most nefarious leader of the organized-crime syndicate of photo thieves. Alert the FBI!

Please remove or replace your image with this one, so that 2+2 is stuck with an advertisement till they delete it.

http://www.TheTiltedJack.com/JodyKatieAnneTim800.jpg

And thank god our members are smart enough to avoid this nit haven of a forum. Hopefully none of them will see the crime you committed and want to press charges.

I've spoken to some city officials very very high up in the muckity muck, (not to drop names, that's sooooo not my style), but Peggy Neely, Claude Mattox, Thelda Williams, Wes Gullet, Jim Waring, Mr. Jeffries4Council, David Jones (means biz!), Bill Gates and some dude who just wants to be known simply as "Stanton", and they have assured me that if elected this fall, Phoenix will be a much safer place because they all unanimously agreed that you're organized crime syndicate in Phoenix needs to end.

I have told them about your exploits, and they assure me that very soon, they will be cracking down hard on all illegal photo thieves. Do you pay your self-employment tax if you are a thief? I didn't think so. so not only are you breaking the law making money pirating images you do not own, but you're not paying taxes on your illicit gains.

You and your ilk will be taken down hard, and I understand that several criminal law judges have held meetings with the department of revenue and at least three high ranking executive officers from Waste Management to discuss a possible sting operation to bring you and your ilk down. They intend to pursue you to the full extent of the law. You have been warned. The end is near, repent sinners!

You can't have it both ways folks.

Forget poker for a moment, because the legal issues are indeed gray and murky, especially where the cooperative is concerned, but obviously, even without the warm and fuzzy cooperative blanket to protect our rights to play, the poker room scene in the Valley has been ongoing for several years without repercussions. Legal or illegal, obviously it's somewhere in between or these clubs would have all been raided and closed down long ago.

Drugs are illegal. Dealing is illegal. I hope we can all agree on this fact without having to resort to 700 posts discussing poorly written statutes.

We all know you can't get a business license or certificate of occupancy for a meth lab in a strip mall. There's no check box for a "grow house" (well, yet anyway lol).

Since drugs are illegal there's no way that a meth lab should be able to operate openly in a public strip mall, luring in customers and hooking them up with a terrible addiction and robbing them off all their money. Can you imagine this happening?

Rather than just "raid all strip mall meth lab", you are actually arguing that "hey, that drug dealer isn't paying his taxes, he's not insured as a meth lab, and his drug runners aren't e-filing self-employment taxes."

I know it's an absurd analogy, but I hope you see my point. I'm not sure I do, but it's in there somewhere.

Just one name Willy. One substantiating individual who backs your crusade. Please.

• The legal issues are cut and dry.
• No 3rd party benefit from gambling is legal in Arizona.
• You're not a cooperative.

What's your business license say on it?

you know im so curious that i called city of phoenix,

asked them about these poker rooms

1. what part of phoenix there in?
2. call city clerk that issued business license section.
3. call phoenix pd --if you think a crime is happening

911 how can i help you?? yes they are charging me a button fee please help and making a mandatory tip

911 "REALLY"

so basically when you call phoenix regarding these poker rooms they said phoenix pd is handling these issues now.

Obviously no need to call 911.

If you were in a part of town with one of these rooms, and you felt that they were breaking the law and that bothered you, you'd call the non-emergency number and ask to speak to a detective.

you really don't think somone would call 911

What I find intresting is that the city of phoenix are fielding calls regarding about poker rooms and all calls are being refered to phx pd.

What the hell is phx pd going to do, when there own officers are security at these locations under the assumption its legal

This really isn't going anywhere until someone files a lawsuit either for or against these rooms

the judges case will not resolve the poker clubs issue.

i think ur black friday maybe coming though before the judges case

Oh I disagree. The state's case against Lee hinges upon the button fee. If they can't prove that the statutes mean "button fee" when they read "benefit" then there is no conspiracy or control of an illegal enterprise.

Problem is these rooms, including the Ace High Club Lee was a part of, are all operated "as a business" or as one Phoenix official told me "for profit". So if Lee can't dodge the button bullet a simple cease and desist will close down all but two clubs immediately.

That still won't solve the problem, it won't be resolved, because the button fee used in a non-profit (I would assume) or cooperative (most definitely) situation is an entirely different beast altogether. There's some accountability and self regulation and open books in a cooperative environment. Quite different, and quite difficult to launder money or become a target for organized crime.

Well well well... Phoenix PD has been asked to police the rooms where their off duty officers work, and where some police, sheriff deputies, city workers and firemen are also members as well... well well... seems we have reached the same type of conflict of interest that I've called out with the cozy arrangement the DoG and BIA casinos enjoy. Tit for tat, I say.

blah blah blah. This same thing has been said countless times for a thousand days fear monger. It's like the boy who cried wolf. Tiresome.

i was told phx pd is in charge of in the faith of these rooms, I find that hard to believe. I also find the az dept of gaming a joke, what most people don't know is they have no authority, so why call the gaming department people. The honestly can't do anything about it, look at all the cases that has been filed, all the rooms were closed before the DOG walked in. The DOG can't do anything, now local police is a different subject.

And apparently they are now in control in determing the faith, Im just curious which detective has the lead on this.

Since you brought up money laundering, didn't that happen at poker nation. That one idiot using her merchant account and christine willing to charge the juice for it, but she didn't realize what he was doing. That right there could only hurt the image of these clubs, the problem John is not you but the other owners down the street from you and the stuff they are pulling, you know what I mean. AZ really needs to clean up, I really don't think the State cares as long as they get theres, but the problem the damn BIA claiming how it hurts the business.

It most certainly will; just not the way that John hopes.

ADOG officers may be peace officers.

5-603. Department of gaming investigators; peace officer status
An investigator who is regularly employed and paid by the department of gaming and who is certified by the Arizona peace officer standards and training board has the authority of a peace officer.

Well, John, since you asked.... How about I give you more than one name?

The Attorney General of Arizona, past and present. Mark Brnovich and the Arizona Department of Gaming, who have stated in various news articles that all the poker rooms off the res violate state law. The Internal Revenue Service (form 3949 check box gambling/wagering). Scottsdale City Attorney. The City of Gilbert along with Gilbert City Attorney who stated in an AZ Central article that the closed room there (due to code violations) appeared to her to violate state law. The City of Tucson who raided the home of the owners of Club Royale after it closed due to being sued by a tribe in that area. All the tribal communities of Arizona. Arizona Center For Policy who is big on pushing legislation against businesses such as yours (They are aware) of the illegal nature of all the poker rooms. The Arizona Department of Revenue. Other posters of Two Plus Two who have expressed themselves to you. The other Cities who are soon to follow with stopping the illegal poker rooms for various liability reasons to the cities themselves. Phoenix vice squad who, as of approximately 3 months ago due to meetings held, have been found to be the body responsible for enforcing city codes in regard to

http://phoenix.gov/CITYCODE/PTIITHCO...RGA_S23-78GARO

Where, as you know, poker is directly mentioned in various forms as being in violation of City Code.

For those of you who think that ADOG has no authority off the res... They have somewhat limited authority but are able to carry out investigations and if your look at the state legislative statues, you will find in the later areas that the director has more authority off the res than most think. They did conduct the investigations for Tucson, Scottsdale and Surprise. They assist in big ways in the prosecutions of these poker rooms. Meetings have been held with various cities regarding poker rooms over the last 8-12 months...

Anyway, enough said...

ADOG has no authority, other wise this poker room clubs wouldnt be opening up on every other corner.

go ahead go speak to some of there detectives they will tell you they really have there hands tied, they can investigate and thats IT.

So is that authority I don't think so.

If these clubs are so illegal they would've been shut down, why wait, why would ADOG let it go out of control?

Willebone really enjoy reading your posts, and I agree with you 99% of the time but this time I don't agree with you

Did you know willebone that the FBI is now involved into looking at these clubs, a few clubs specifically due to people involved and the money being loaned.

Why is now phx pd looking into it if the dog has autorithy because they dont!

Poker truth... They don't have the ability to do the actual prosecution of these rooms. The Cities, State, Federal or County attorney's are needed for that. They have full authority of investigation. Seeing how the cities are knowingly licensing these poker rooms and police providing protection because they enjoy playing these rooms, they should be the ones responsible for spending the resources in prosecuting them as did the City of Scottsdale and Gilbert who took steps but did it the less expensive way and removed the room there due to code violations. Again, the city attorney in Gilbert, on AZ Central record, did state that that room appeared to be operating in violation of state law.

ADOG has asked various cities to look into these rooms over the past few years. ADOG has provided past and present investigations. Getting the AG involved is major. Also, the Harold Lee case is important certainly but two felony plea agreements, to much lesser charges (admission of guilt), have already been established and reached in regard to the poker room issue. I think the plea agreements already provide and prove wrong doing when it comes to the poker room issue. Making up more loopholes in attempts to make a poker room legal are not going to work in my opinion. Then again, that is yet to be seen.