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Personal Attacks in Political Forums by Poobahs Mr Wookie, 5ive, goofybalef AoFrantic etc Personal Attacks in Political Forums by Poobahs Mr Wookie, 5ive, goofybalef AoFrantic etc

06-29-2017 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer
I see that it was originally a permaban that was changed to a Politics exile instead.
No it was a temp-ban with an end date of never. That's literally what it said. The word never was there in black and white.

I asked mat to lift it and exile me from P
06-29-2017 , 05:13 PM
Hahahahhaha, OK, I'll respond to Sushy on this one, since he's being hilariously disingenuous here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
On the subject of temp-bans, people may find this amusing.

My last ban from the P forum was a temp-ban (10 infraction points) with an end date of never. I don't know if it was wookie's idea of a joke or not, but it effectively was a site-wide permaban. My total points at the time had not reached 100.
I'm 90% sure that I put in the ban reason, explicitly, a note for Mat to convert the ban to an exile, and that note should have been visible to Sushy. Mat was PMed immediately to do this, and, as we all can see, poor Sushy was indeed unbanned and exiled.
06-29-2017 , 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Hahahahhaha, OK, I'll respond to Sushy on this one, since he's being hilariously disingenuous here.



I'm 90% sure that I put in the ban reason, explicitly, a note for Mat to convert the ban to an exile, and that note should have been visible to Sushy. Mat was PMed immediately to do this, and, as we all can see, poor Sushy was indeed unbanned and exiled.
That note was not visible to me. All that was visible was temp-ban with an end date of never. I was unbanned only after I emailed mat several days later, and following several emails back and forth.

You are not only biased but you are a blatant liar.

Last edited by BroadwaySushy; 06-29-2017 at 05:23 PM.
06-29-2017 , 05:27 PM
When you are banned and try to view 2+2, does the ban reason not appear?

I've seen messages to the banned user show up in ban reasons quite often.
06-29-2017 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
You are not only biased but you are a blatant liar.
Sorry, you have to prove Wookie intended to lie and didn't simply make a mistake to make this claim, according to your own definition of lying. And that's assuming you're even correct that the ban reason was not visible to you.
06-29-2017 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat Sklansky
well named can certainly be a moderator in both forums.

the worst thing that will happen to pokerodox is an exile from politics.
If well named standards for moderation were applied in P there would be much more limited value in an alt forum. But it's very clear from this thread why P is so unrepresentive. Posters don't want to be worried about temp bans because the mods have political issues with them, let alone the threat of permabans.

In practice most 2+2ers aren't gong to be considering it ok because they can get an exile if they appeal to you. That's an intolerable situation for most people trying to discuss politics in such a toxic environment.
06-29-2017 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
When you are banned and try to view 2+2, does the ban reason not appear?

I've seen messages to the banned user show up in ban reasons quite often.
It does. I just banned a gimmick to test it out.

You have been banned for the following reason:
just testing something

Date the ban will be lifted: Never
06-29-2017 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
When you are banned and try to view 2+2, does the ban reason not appear?

I've seen messages to the banned user show up in ban reasons quite often.
On the desktop I've seen numerous screenshots as well. Maybe he was ph0an p0asting and Tapatalk doesn't show it?
06-29-2017 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
That's an intolerable situation for most people trying to discuss politics in such a toxic environment.
Right, clearly the solution to a toxic environment is to allow all personal attacks in your forum, because that's not at all a toxic environment for political discussion
06-29-2017 , 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerodox
I don't know. I reported very few.

Just to double check, are you saying there isn't a double standard? Namely, that liberals receive much more leniency for personally attacking conservatives than conservatives receive for personally attacking liberals.
I think conservatives complain about bans a lot more than liberals in that forum do.

Take ikes vs fly. They both got temp-banned constantly. Only one of them routinely came back from bans and, though they weren't the kind of complain about moderation, whined endlessly about the ban. I'll let you guess which one it was.

I know I've seen a lot of liberal posters eat temp bans and they don't run to ATF. Why do you think that is?

It sounds like, from what we've heard itt from the two mods, they sometimes let reports fall through the cracks. It's not a great look, but it happens. It sounds also like Mat is interested in putting more mods on the team to ensure that doesn't happen.

Of course, if posts violating the rules aren't reported by conservative posters, how is that the fault of moderators? You can't seriously expect them to read every post of every thread, right?
06-29-2017 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
You can petition to share me, if you want. I read most of the posts in the main forum anyway.

Spoiler:
Im a big supporter of you staying mod of Pv7.0 but if you become mod of P then a) It would improve P significantly imo but b) You should step down from Pv7.0 and it would because a forum that takes a far less toxic approach to politics that P prefers



Sent from my XT1021 using 2+2 Forums
06-29-2017 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
If well named standards for moderation were applied in P there would be much more limited value in an alt forum.
If I were to moderate in the main forum I would moderate it according to its own standards, not the P7 rules, fwiw. I think it's kind of a bad idea to make dramatic changes to the way the main forum is moderated, because most of the posters in the forum are happy with the current enforcement. There's just a question of lacking coverage and missing things that probably should be moderated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Right, clearly the solution to a toxic environment is to allow all personal attacks in your forum, because that's not at all a toxic environment for political discussion
I wouldn't call the main forum "toxic", but I think these are two different issues that aren't particularly related. Complaints about the main forum are complaints about moderation bias (leaving aside whether those complaints are justified). Allowing personal attacks in P7 is not an attempt to address moderation bias, it's an attempt to give the majority of P7 posters what they say they want. And for the most part the posters who have a problem with the main forum moderation also wanted personal attacks. The only exception is pokerodox.
06-29-2017 , 05:49 PM
I guess I can't really blame chez for trying to get rid of me already
06-29-2017 , 05:52 PM
Look, it's really not all that difficult to have a fair forum. Just apply the rules evenly to everyone. It's not rocket science.
06-29-2017 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
I guess I can't really blame chez for trying to get rid of me already
I'd much rather you stayed but most of the reason would be lost if your approach was applied to P.



Sent from my XT1021 using 2+2 Forums
06-29-2017 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer
It does. I just banned a gimmick to test it out.

You have been banned for the following reason:
just testing something

Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Yeah, that's what mine said.
06-29-2017 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Yeah, that's what mine said.
Lol, no it's not. But I guess this means we've cracked the case!
06-29-2017 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Lol, no it's not. But I guess this means we've cracked the case!
Well, I'm going on memory here, but I distinctly remember the end date of never because I thought it was weird to have a Temp-ban with an end date of never. Pretty sure the reason for the ban was there too, but I may be wrong on that. There was nothing about exile.

And I definitely had to email mat to get it lifted and I asked for the exile myself. He can verify that if he wants to.

Last edited by BroadwaySushy; 06-29-2017 at 06:17 PM.
06-29-2017 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
I think conservatives complain about bans a lot more than liberals in that forum do.

Take ikes vs fly. They both got temp-banned constantly. Only one of them routinely came back from bans and, though they weren't the kind of complain about moderation, whined endlessly about the ban. I'll let you guess which one it was.

I know I've seen a lot of liberal posters eat temp bans and they don't run to ATF. Why do you think that is?

It sounds like, from what we've heard itt from the two mods, they sometimes let reports fall through the cracks. It's not a great look, but it happens. It sounds also like Mat is interested in putting more mods on the team to ensure that doesn't happen.

Of course, if posts violating the rules aren't reported by conservative posters, how is that the fault of moderators? You can't seriously expect them to read every post of every thread, right?
You didn't answer my question. Are you actually saying that conservatives and liberals are treated equally on the issue of mod response to reported personal attacks?

Sure, if I don't report them, that's on me. But wait, let's talk just about reported personal attacks. Are you saying they are treated equally?
06-29-2017 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerodox
Yah, but I'd don't love posting in an environment where my political opponents are allowed to throw slurs at me relentlessly, but if I counter in kind, I get a ban. If I exaggerate or take a little poetic license, that's a ban, but they get to do it relentlessly.

I may be back to walk the tightrope. Just doesn't sound like a good conversation to me though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
How many posts did you report while you were posting in P main?

i ask because my response to personal attacks is to ignore it and report the post. I've done pretty well with not getting in trouble there for some reason.

Though, I've noticed that when I report a post that's attacking me, it tends not to get moderated, but when I report a post of someone else being attacked, it usually gets moderated.
Plus, there is the bolded. I just named (1) personal attacks and (2) allowance for poetic license and exaggeration. There are plenty more kinds of bias in the modding. But I just want to avoid an arbitrary ban (now arbitrary exile).
06-29-2017 , 06:39 PM
I will agree that there is a bias for exaggeration. There's a few liberal posters who do it, and I wonder if wookie doesn't have those posters ignored.

as for personal attacks and the like, i think the gap is a lot closer than our conservative posters realize. I'm not willing to say that's intentional, but it could easily be because of a combination of other issues (low post reports, low # of mods, high forum traffic, etc)

i hope you understand that I'm for fixing any of these issues so that moderation is, if not seen as being balanced, more equally applied, more consistently.
06-29-2017 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Sorry, you have to prove Wookie intended to lie and didn't simply make a mistake to make this claim, according to your own definition of lying. And that's assuming you're even correct that the ban reason was not visible to you.
He was lying about the exile note and I definitely had to ask mat myself to be exiled and have the ban lifted. Mat knew nothing about it.
06-29-2017 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer
It does. I just banned a gimmick to test it out.

You have been banned for the following reason:
just testing something

Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Yeah, that's what mine said.
Apart from the reason of course.
06-29-2017 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
i hope you understand that I'm for fixing any of these issues so that moderation is, if not seen as being balanced, more equally applied, more consistently.
Thanks. Glad to hear that.
06-29-2017 , 07:27 PM
Articulating one another's motives is almost never useful. Ever. Just so here.

      
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