I never called for their speech to be suppressed. You are imagining sentences that I never wrote. That's something Trump supporters often do because they can't win arguments straight up, but it looks like the habit is infectious. It's very tedious and frustrating and it's actually a disinformation tactic because it prevents real discussion from taking place. I spend all day cleaning up house and explaining to you what I actually meant, and we never get to actually discuss the issue.

What the **** are you talking about. THE LIBERALS ARE DEFENDING THESE PEOPLE. I JUST SAID SO.

And if your official position is "we musn't protest these speakers!" then you're the one who is against free speech pal, not me. Get it straight.

Here's the ACLU, liberal organization that it is, supporting these idiots' right to organize and assemble:


https://twitter.com/ACLU_OR/status/869291118382292992

I'm simply pointing out that Fox News and other conservative organizations don't actually care about free speech, while liberals do. If they did they would be horrified at Greg Gianforte. I never suggested we go against free speech because of that, I'm merely pointing out that they're concern trolling you. It is useful to see the motivations of those who are trying to talk their free speech to you, especially when their speech is a means to a greater end (violence or camps).

Recognize that speech is one of the most powerful tools in the world, and so while we should respect the rights of these people to speak their hate speech, giving up our right to protest and fight back against that speech would be disrespectful to the very idea of freedom of speech as well. We are the ones with consistent values on this issue, but at the same time recognize that better ideas don't always win the day. Martin Luther King, Jr. had better ideas but he was taken down by a bullet from some moron. That's how the real world works. Slavery was not defeated by the Lincoln-Douglas debates.

The mayor of Portland isn't trying to limit free speech, they are trying to stop the violence. If the alt right had a rally, it's Portland, there will be violence and riots.

Harvey Milk had better ideas. He was killed by some ******* with a gun.

clovis gonna clovis

Clovis,

I can relate to the tree of liberty needing the blood of fascists, but you get that this is more of a gang fight than a rally?

What's your position on leakers, especially the kind who got Mike Flynn out of office...scumbags or heroes?

Better yet, would you support a coup against the Trump/GOP administration if they succeed in taking over all 3 branches, undoing elections and term limits, scrapping free speech, replacing all bipartisan career officials with Trump loyalists, etc.?

einbert, i think paul ryan called on the guy to come out and apologize for the choke slamming.

Which is why Russia is a beacon for gay rights, atheists and agnostics are out and proud in countries that have blasphemy laws, Latino centric classes are the rage in Arizona, and illegal immigrants are visible and speaking out instead of hiding in the shadows.

The torture debate was "easy" because torture didn't work in addition to being against liberal values but suppression works, not 100% of the time, but a lot more than torture does.

I think a better case can be made that free speech is important for the protection of minority viewpoints, and free speech is consistent with liberal values and so even terrible free speech shouldn't be shut down with violence but let's not pretend that the "free speech" Nazis are playing with anything but a loaded deck when it comes to talking about an open marketplace of ideas, best idea winning, etc. They're not interested in it and never have been otherwise Jim Crow would have been over in one debate.

"Ideas to the battlefield" lol.

The problem is Antifa will bring sticks and mace to the battlefield and the Trumpkins will bring knives and guns.

We allow free speech in most cases in Canada, not all. If it is used to spread or inspire hatred then it is illegal. Hence, klan rallies are not allowed by law or even the existence of the klan is illegal. Is the US not like this in terms of free speech?

Yeah we may be winning the court of public opinion, meanwhile the GOP is suppressing millions of voters and has people thinking Islamic terrorism is a greater threat to them than radical white supremacy. We can keep on winning the court of public opinion and keep on losing elections and Paul Ryan will just laugh himself all the way to the bank and get a nice fat job on K-Street when he's finally voted out or resigns because it isn't fun any more.

This.

And it's annoying as hell when people fall all over themselves blanket condemning the left for the actions of a handful of young anarchists while giving full benefit of the doubt to the side with cold blooded murderers on it.

Spreading hatred is legal. Westboro Baptist church went around openly spreading hatred. The issue here is the imminent threat of violence.

I support all leakers as information should be free. Only in the rarest cases should something be kept from the people. There is far too much "classified" information in the US.

And hell yes. I think we are far past the need for an overthrow of the trump administration.

I was going to start a thread a few days ago about state-run Fox News and at what point its dangers run against the limitations on free speech.

You are confusing the battle with the war. Sure we will lose battles, but we don't care. We are trying to win a war.

People itt are claiming it's ok to stop Trumps rally or prevent Trupkins from speaking at universities.

Where am I giving the right the benifit of the doubt? I think my opinion of the right is pretty well documented.

The no win scenario here is that if Antifa kills someone they get officially declared a terrorist group and the police round up anyone who checked On Anarchy out at the library. If the Trumpkins kill someone, it was one disturbed individual who was provoked.

Are Trump rallies the new Klan rallies? Where a bunch of 'supporters' blatantly spew racist remarks behind a thinly veiled support for the political administration.

this doesnt help you.

Paul Ryan called for the guy to apologize. Again, this is "deeply troubled" stuff. The GOP has the power to totally condemn this guy, call for his resignation, make his life miserable so he resigns and they have a special election for a real representative. But they're not going to do any of that stuff. It's an easy way out.