I used some of the proceeds of my stock sale to take a position in DGZ to partially hedge my gold/silver holdings. I think your short position on the SM is likely to be more profitable than shorting gold. However, if stocks do not continue heading south, I suspect gold will.

Well I started my trading career as a silver bug..got lucky because of random chance...The problem with PM is there is confirmation bias upon confirmation bias all lined up when you get moving..and the more you "learn" the more confirmation bias awaits you.. not to mention the biggest scam artist/gurus waiting to feed and back up this confirmation bias because they suck at trading what they pretend to know.

To me the PM complex boils down to that right now:
Gold is a US dollar index short
Silver is an over priced industrial metal with a historic correlation to gold, with tight market that leads to extreme volatility(this has nothing to do though if the current spot/futures price is a good trade though).
Plat is an industrial metal with a correlation to gold
Paladium is correlated to both Plat via substition demand and gold because of the way Plat is correlated to gold and because the market is tighter than Plat.

I like Plat right now but will easily sell and move into silver if gold breaks out just for some leverage, which it almost certainly will in the next 5 years..
I can't see myself ever owning gold and certainly would never waste time with the mining industry again.

inf0,

This is a serious question. If I want to buy physical silver what do you recommend?

American Silver Eagles
Junk Silver
etc

If I was to buy silver I would want to buy the Sealed Mint Boxes of 500 Eagles each. I just prefer it be brand new and shiny in nice 1 oz increments.

Much higher premium though. Just want your thoughts on the Silver Eagles.

All you need to think about here is say your up nice with buying eagles? Apmex is great for getting in..but its kind of weird for getting out..since you have to ship your physical with nothing in return besides a quote from their desk..
There is no reason to pay the prem on eagles but there might be a mental reason to pay the prem for yourself if you check around what your local coin shops will buy physical at.
Its purely random what company minted bars if you buy from an online distributor...getting out though, the supply/demand equation is much different and they won't give you the same price depending on who minted your physical...exactly because they have to sell to a tighter market vs the online guys.

Info,

This is not a serious question.

Can you pls video tape yourself attempting to barter for basic tools with gold and seeds?

I see a YouTube juggernaut on our hands.

I believe inf0 would encourage you to buy any and all commonly traded silver coins/bars, starting with junk silver (which will be most convenient for bartering in the post-fiat economy).

I have a safe deposit box filled with silver rounds and bars from Northwest Territorial Mint (I like their "Pan American" design); they have the best prices I've found. Their coins/bars are plenty shiny and well packaged (the bars are individually sealed in clear plastic sheets). Since American Eagles and junk silver are currency, they cannot be legally stored in a safe deposit box and would be subject to confiscation by government agencies (according to my bank representative).

I cannot explain to you exactly why this is the case, but silver maple leafs seem to be selling for a lot less than ASEs at the time that I am posting this...

apmex is selling maples for 15.42 right now ( if you buy 25 or more )
and they're selling ASEs for 16.22 right now ( if you buy 500 or more )

bulliondirect has maples for 15.59
ASE for 16.34

tulving.com has maples for 15.36 (2009 maples)
ASE for 15.86 ( year of their choice)
dont hold me to these prices i just kind of got them really fast =)

ok back to the point of this-- I just don't like ASEs THAT much more than maples... i realize that ASEs are worth more than maples, but there's really hardly any difference to me between them...
if you will get more enjoyment out of one than the other though-- you should buy whatever floats your boat.

Assuming you currently own zero silver at all right now, and assuming you have exactly $8000 to spend right now, I would buy

http://www.apmex.com/Product/44447/1..._Apr_14th.aspx

100 of these rounds @ 14.17 each = 1417

http://www.apmex.com/Product/43306/1..._April_23.aspx

20 of these bars @ 138.60 each = 2772

total is 4189 so far

http://www.apmex.com/Product/160/default.aspx

I would buy 20 of these for 341.20 ... these coins are not a very great deal but I really derive a lot of enjoyment from owning a couple of them. That's just my personal taste getting involved here though, a more rational person than myself buy these. I get a kick out of owning a couple older coins from 1899 or 1911 or whatever... but this is NOT how i hold most of my silver by any means

total 4530.20

then i would take the other 3500

and buy as much junk silver as possible, I would expect to pay about 11x face value right now, so I would be hoping to score about 3,200 90% silver mercury dimes ( meaning dimes from the year 1964 and before ) or quarters or WL halves if you can find them.

However, I would not fault you for buying any other type of silver that you are interested in owning... don't take my advise as gospel... but I would be very very long very very physical silver very very soon imho.

i can tell you that i really like the 10 oz bars and you can see yourself in them like a mirror and they're very nice but like you were saying you have to take your personal prefence into account.

Don't keep all your eggs in one basket. If you got 10-15% of your silver in a safe deposit box then thats great. If you got 20 or 30% then that seems like a very high risk to me, I personally don't trust banks... but that's up to you. If the gov't confiscates all our money again, we're gonna be very ****ed. If they do confiscate silver and gold, THEY're GOING TO TAKE ALL OF IT TRUST ME!!

However I think the NWT mint items are a good value overall much of the time-- personally I get nervous waiting 4 or 5 months for delivery, but if youve ime to spare... nothing wrong with ordering from them. I've never done business w them and would rather recommend a site I have dealt with successfully a few times before... even if it costs 2-3% more to buy from them... most people do ge ttheir orders from NWT mint though... it just takes a really really really long time in some cases...

inf0,

thanks for the response. my concern with the rounds and bars is that if I ever decided to sell them, who would I actually sell them to?

that is why I like the ASE and the Mapleleafs. Easy to sell them if I decide to do it.

I think I am going to buy a few of the ASE and Mapleleafs boxes when I am decide the time is right.

just want to say right now this guy is obv a troll and he's very close to teh ignore list... Are you purposely trying to make the most poorly written posts you possibly can?

The more recognizable+uniform the silver you possess is, the tighter the buy/ask spread tends to me. No matter what form of silver you purchase, there is a considerable buy/ask spread, so if you're a short term trader, you probably should not purchase any physical silver.
However, if you're looking for a slam dunk long term investment which will likely go up more than 1000% in the next 5 years or less, then look no further. If you're thinking about selling the silver back to the dealer after it only doubles or triples in price, this is the wrong investment for you.

yes. it is smart to get highly liquid ones like mapleleafs. have you considered getting an account with the canadian mint which sell unsegregated gold, silver and platinum and have cheap storage fees? how bout someone like goldmoney or e-bullion?

We have very different objectives, goals, and ideas. There's no wrong or right silver to buy. I'm not thinking about selling this silver... I'm thinking I will own it for 20 years or more. I'm thinking I will pass it on to my kids when I die. Trust me someone WILL be willing to buy any / all of your silver. You can get a lot more ounces of silver if you pay a smaller premium. But hey, I just gave you my advice about what I would buy, everyone is different. Also imho junk silver is just as liquid as ASEs and maples... and I did recommend nearly half of the silver you buy to be junk silver... so if you can find someone who is willing to buy maples or ases, odds are they're willing to buy junk silver as well. If you currently own zero real assets right now, I would highly highly recommend buying ASAP, but that is also up to you to decide. Good luck with whatever you opt to do!

i've previously bought and sold physical gold through tulving. very easy experience. i will probably use tulving again.

i never really understood the people who use goldmoney or store their gold in a different location such as the perth mint.

i think the entire principle of owning phyiscal gold is so you can actually have it in your possession. i suppose everyone invests differently.

wow... i don't even know where to start here... i mean... pretty much the exact opposite of everything you said in this post is true... i disagree with abou 100% of this post... for reasons I have rehashed countless times throughout this thread. The difference between my posts and your posts though is that I provide reasons and logic behind my assertions...

I don't just make a huge assumption / assertion, and then have zero logic backing it up, don't even explain my position fully, and don't cite any articles or references at all.

1. Why do you think gold is a US dollar short?? Do you think silver is a US dollar short? Do you think platinum is a US dollar short? Do you think long term storable food is a US dollar short? Can you explain to me what a US dollar short is? Can you name some other physical assets we have discussed earlier in this thread, and whether you think they are US dollar shorts or not? Is farmland a US dollar short? Are vegetable seeds a US dollar short? Why do you think silver is an industrial metal and not a monetary metal? Why do you think silver is overpriced right now?

Have you ever read a book called MONEY MISCHIEF before? This book was written by Milton Friedman... do you know who that is?

if you type into google search "silver monetary metal friedman" , the third search result you get is a link from books.google.com . please go read through page 122-124. I would be very curious to hear your SPECIFIC ( as in please prove to me you actually read it! ) comments about this book and the ideas that Friedman proposes.

Could you do a better job of explaining why you will never waste time with the mining industry again? I don't know very much about the mining industry- I don't know very much about anything for that matter. But NEVER is a very long time... I usually don't use words like never or always very often because they can be very limiting... there's not very many things i can say with certainty that I will NEVER waste my time on again, so I am curious to hear your thoughts on this.... please feel free to elaborate in your posts and use as many specific details, citations, explanations as possible in order for me to help understand your clearly flawed way of thinking.

Also what is your reasoning behind pointing out that these metals are "industrial" metals? Aren't most metals industrial metals??? Saying that these metals are industrial metals seems akin to saying the s ky is blue... well ya s ure of course it is... who cares... what's your point.... thank you for stating the obvious?

Yes, platinum is used in explosives manufacturing.. therefore its an industrial metal...

yes, silver is used in medicine that cures cancer, etc... therefore its an industrial metal.... ok grea.t..............

hey guys 2+2 = 4... i hope you have all benefitted greatly from my powerful knowledge that 2+2 =4....

i am going to stop posting here for a few days i need a break =):co ol:

please feel free to post as many insults, questions, commentts, links, etc while i am gone i will be more than happy to get back to yall when i return!

the only reason maple leafs are better to own than other forms of gold is due to quality of their guarantee for face value and quantity. If you think canadian mint will default on you you cant think its a good idea to buy them over any other form of gold. it would also be an argument against owning any other legal claim of an asset. It really is only supreme doomsday where some physical gold in your position is much preferred to an audited and insured title to it especially one guranteed by a highly solvent mint which is further backed by a solvent government, and i dont think you need a huge holding for that purpose. Even if its in your house it can be taken. Perhaps on net its safer with them and the insurance quality is probably higher than you'd obtain. There is counterparty risk with yourself and they are storage experts, you are not. So far as you can legally be entitled to anything at least within canada your investment in these vehicles will be safe.

All good points. Thanks.

I am a bit nervous about keeping as much in a safe deposit box as I do. I also keep some at home, but do not think my home is much more secure. Regarding the confiscation issue, I was referring to what would happen if the bank opens your box for some reason other than a government ordered confiscation of precious metals. For example, if they open your box due to non-payment of box rental fees, I believe all currency (paper or coin) would be confiscated by the government (but not non-currency gold or silver).

Regarding NWT, I've not heard of anyone not getting their order. I believe they've recently increased their staff size to process orders somewhat more promptly.

wow can't help myself

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...-currency.html

In effect, the G20 leaders have activated the IMF's power to create money and begin global "quantitative easing". In doing so, they are putting a de facto world currency into play. It is outside the control of any sovereign body. Conspiracy theorists will love it.

It has been a good summit for the IMF. Its fighting fund for crises is to be tripled overnight to $750bn. This is real money.

Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the managing director, said in February that the world was "already in Depression" and risked a slide into social disorder and military conflict unless political leaders resorted to massive stimulus.

So to sum up: we're gonna have a depression unless you keep handing over infinite money power and control to the banksters! BUT we can STOP the depression... all we have to do is... sit back, watch TV, order genetically modified chinese food, drink poisoned water and the banksters will fix everything... by... looting what little is left of our country...
but who really cares about any of this stuff? it's too complicated to understand anyways. As long as they keep my cable tv on, and keep letting me eat poisoned food and water, i dont really care about anyone besides myself anyways

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jSUHVUgJFc

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...53790N20090408

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

http://uk.reuters.com/article/market...63300420090409

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/us...g.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ie-banks/print

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...KWo&refer=home

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffre..._b_183499.html

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...lan/?page=full

http://www.marke****ch.com/news/story/Goldman-Sachs-bailout-bonanza/story.aspx?guid={504CB844-C558-4E40-B928-80C16DECBC05}&dist=SecMostRead

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/65496.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UQUMYO9zt4

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...siness_4932271

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2qDW34Fr64

if anyone has given a serious reading / watching to even 1/3 of the links i posted in this thread, and you still don't have physical assets, you are likely borderline insane and I pity you greatly. I'm not here to say I told you so, we are all in this together. Your suffering is my suffering. Please go back and read through what I have posted again, I am begging you.



Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.
~Einstein

But the vast majority of the time ideas met with violent opposition are dumb, not great. I am yet to see a conspiracy theory that does not use Gallileo or Einstein as an integral part of their argument.

why has gold been getting crushed lately?

crushed is pretty harsh... silver is sooooooo cheap right now its insanity
commodities are very volatile... have to have a long term prospective...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6OrD...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMucs...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MH0Xfp72XE