Auto sales slowdown most likely. Platinum is used in catalytic converters.

Just read that one third of all newly mined platinum goes to automakers.

You may purchase one-ounce government issued gold bullion coins for less than a 6% premium over the spot price if you shop around. The premium for analogous silver coins is more than four times the premium for gold. Therefore, I'd recommend you start by purchasing a few ounces of gold. If you're not too worried about an imminent hyperinflationary armageddon, you may consider adding some paper silver (e.g., an etf or even an unallocated silver pool account such as from Kitco) to avoid paying "super high premiums." Beware, however, that your investment in an unallocated pool account is only as good as the company offering it; if the company disappears, so will your investment in all likelihood.

Would all these ******ed prop bets that are never going to happen stop please.

I mean seriously, shut up and stop derailing this thread. you are not cool

(I'm only on page 4 and I'm getting sick of it)

So far the best I have found from a local dealer is about $60 over spot for 1oz gold coins, about 3.50 per ounce over spot for silver coins/bars, and about 2.75 per ounce above spot for "junk silver" in something like 700 ounce bags.

Is that gonna be the best I can do? Looking at kitco etc, they are about $30 over spot, and I would be ordering smaller over time orders so I would probably have to pay insurance/shipping too.

I paid ~$50 over spot for 1oz African Krugers @ bulliondirect.com last week. Could be waiting up to two weeks before coins are in my possession.

The paper gold Comex market has little bearing with reality. Taking delivery is nearly impossible for ordinary humans.

Thus, I look at the physical Krugerrand price as the true spot price for an ounce of gold, and the Comex market as paper gold selling at a discount to real gold.

just fyi, the mint has now canceled my order for a second time in a week with no explanation, and when i call to check why, they show an automated response that they are not taking calls right now.

http://www.goldnewswire.net/ted-butler-the-sting

Got my APMEX order today, 11 caldendar days after payment and 7 calendar days after shipment. Everything looks great--extremely well packaged order, beautiful coins, everything arrived in good order. Thanks to inf0wars for the help.

The mailman bitched about the package and I didn't appreciate that. Oh well.

I dont think anyone here with the exception of Dcifr has the first clue about trading the metals.

are you trying to level us, purposely spread information, or are you just THAT stupid?

http://www.energyandoil.com/the-powe...ects-on-mining

http://www.commodityonline.com/commo...es-9258-3.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/hotSt...57208620080125

much more correct answer than the one you provided : there were massive power outages that shut down all of the biggest mines in South Africa, including the largest platinum producer in the world.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...fRU&refer=home

This article states that S.A. produces 80% of the platinum produced in the world... so they have quite a large market share for those who were unaware.


Commodities tend to be loosely correlated with each other and go up and down together... and trust me they will be going up soon! Platinum is being traded very near the price hat it costts to take it out of the groudn... if platinum stays at $1000 for 2 years in a row from now, all of the platinum mines in the entire world will close down because they're simply not profitable to operate... there's only one direction for these commodities which are trading below production cost to go... even rigged markets such as the ones we currently have simply cannot stave off reality forever...

If it costs you $4 in materials to make a banana split, but consumers will only pay $3 for it... something's gotta change... if your business is too successful... you will be bustto in a very short period of time...


If you guys think physical gold's premium over "spot" is getting ridiculous... go price out some platinum... I doubt you can get 1 oz or smaller platinum coins for less than 20% over spot.

“A History of Platinum” by D. McDonald and L. B. Hunt - I would highly recommend this book if you're interested in learning a few things about Plat.


According to these charts :
http://www.platinum.matthey.com/publ...520516719.html

it looks like between 1976 and 2006, a span of 30 years, about 130 million oz troy of platinum were produced. As you mentioned much of this goes into catalytic converters for cars. If we valued all of these oz of plat 2k an ounce, these 130m ozt would be worth about 260 billion dollars- an enormous sum of money. Of course much of this platinum has already been consumed in the form of other industrial uses, jewelry, investment, c converters, etc.

so once again just to reiterate : every single ounce of platinum that has been produced in the last thirty years is worth 260 billion(@2k/oz)

these criminal bankers have looted us for...
12.8 trillion now according o bloomberg, they're probably looted 20t from europe, many other trills from other banks... we have got to be talking 35trillion at least by now... i would say 50 but I would rather keep my estimates conservative... i'm going to be really conservative and say we've only been looted for 26 trillion so far, even though this # is probably significantly higher already and will certainly reach at least 50t by the end of this year...

so how much is 26 trillion? well, that's 26,000 billions

so... significantly less than 1% of the fiat money that has been looted... is enough to buy up all of the platinum mined for THE LAST THIRTY YEARS @ 2k/oz... if that platinum even EXISTED in the first place. In reality, there is hardly any platinum at all out there, and reserves are running precariously low. It's not like we have a bunch of platinum stored up in Fort Knox ( this was a joke , rofl@ a nyone who thinks we have gold in fort knox).

At the rate the banksters are printing up cash, it just makes sense to move your money into things that:
a) are useful
b) the banksters can't print up

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide

we're on course to print 3 times our GDP in fiat this year AT LEAST, and things only seem to be accelerating... in a few more years once we're printing up 10 or 20 times our GDP in fiat to hand out to banksters and their friends... you are really going to start seeing some inflation. We are seeing massive decreases in goods and services and at the same time we have massive increases in money supply... this is not the formula for fun economic times.

Good for you, that is a very quick turnaround, I have waited 1 month or longer after payment to get metal from apmex. the mailman is probably a lazy pos who is lucky to have a job... but silver is really really heavy so... be careful not to drop it on your foot.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBP04 View Post
inf0, where do you usually buy your silver/gold? I'm looking to get into investing in metals but I'm a poor college student so I only have 5-6 grand to toss around. I want to avoid paying super high premiums- what's my best bet?
You may purchase one-ounce government issued gold bullion coins for less than a 6% premium over the spot price if you shop around. The premium for analogous silver coins is more than four times the premium for gold. Therefore, I'd recommend you start by purchasing a few ounces of gold. If you're not too worried about an imminent hyperinflationary armageddon, you may consider adding some paper silver (e.g., an etf or even an unallocated silver pool account such as from Kitco) to avoid paying "super high premiums." Beware, however, that your investment in an unallocated pool account is only as good as the company offering it; if the company disappears, so will your investment in all likelihood.

I usually buy from whoever has the cheapest price, sometimes from a dealer in person usually it costs a bit more but... hard to beat cash transactions and instant gratification sometimes. I have dealt with apmex, tulving, midasresources, bulliondirect and others and had good experiences.

o be honest with you i'd rather pay a much larger premium for silver because I believe it will vastly outperform gold, is currently a much better value than gold, etc, etc. If I were in your shoes w 5-6 grand to toss around ( i hope you have a somewhat long holding period, like you could easily hold this for 2-4+ years and not need the money for something else ) I would mos certainly buy all silver. I would keep it simple, get small denomination items. I would probably buy some 1 oz coins and some junk silver.

http://www.apmex.com/Product/25/500_...ver_Coins.aspx

I might just pick up something like his and be done with it... I would definitely recommend getting 100% silver and small denomations though imho.

PLEASE PLEASE whatever you end up doing, stay away from ETFs like the plague. If you're going to buy an ETF to hold for the long run, you might as well set your money on fire.

Intrepidhero- I would like to see where I can buy govt issued 1 oz gold coins for less than 6% over spot ( does this including shipping and handling other hidden fees etc??). I'm not calling you a liar, I am just curious where you're shopping around at??? Why wouldn't you provide a link so everyone here can take advantage of (what seems like ) a pretty good deal...

it really depends... spot + 60 on a kruger might be a bit high while spot + 60 on a gold eagle coin might be about fair... do you see how not providing more details kind of gets in the way here? 3.50 over spot for a silver maple leaf coin might be close to fair while 3.50 over spot on some random bar/sunshine mint round seems pretty overpriced. he good news is you can easily make his decision for yourself -- you are trying to buy a very uniform good- it's probably going to be nearly exactly the same wherever you get it- you only need o factor in price and reputation/trustworthiness of your source.

There's lots of different sites you can price shop at that have been already mentioned here... if the prices are very close i would rather support the local dealer

I don't know if you're talking to me or not but let me throw this hypothetical situation at you:

lets say i offer to bet you 50 ounces of gold that it will not rain anywhere in the world for the next 1,000 years. If it ever rains one time anywhere at any time, even just a quarter of a centimeter, you win 50 oz of gold. Now assume you thought I might be somewhat serious about making this bet... how much time would you devote to trying to lock in a zero risk infinity reward bet? Obviously the other party pussed out of the bet, but I'd feel stupid not spending 5 minutes trying to take this guys money. That's part of my philosophy : make as many very very very high reward very very very low risk bets as possible.

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posted by zygote:
"not sure i can help ya

try someone big and reliable like kitco or direct from the mints. Only get gold that is stamped from one of the major mints. Some mints run storage programs. Im not sure if you can participate in the candian mint's program but its worth looking into. You can look into perth mint certificates also. or online gold storage facilities like goldmoney or e-bullion.

Another good way to play gold is to short GLL or ZSL for silver."

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This guy has 5 or 6k and you want him to buy direct from the mints? STORAGE PROGRAMS WTF? How much money is it going to cost him to store 5k worth of gold/silver? 20 bucks a month? If anyone wants to some reliable storage, I will be happy to hold onto your cash money for you for free. TRUST ME , it's in GOOD HANDS!!! I am infinitely more trustworthy than the banksters ( 0*infinity=0)

I thought the whole point of buying gold and silver is because you don't trust these crooks to gamble up (or not gamble up )your money in derivatives , ponzi schemes, etc...

if you don't hold it, you don't own it. if you don't hold it, you don't own it. if you don't hold it, you don't own it.

Recommending that people invest in these ETFs / ticket symbols / metal funds / etc is just ignorant... this is a hedge against the worst kind of tyranny, the worst kind of disaster, the worst kind of hyperinflation... do you really think these ticker symbols have anything real backing them... do you really think you're going to be able to get some real money in hand in times of emergency or crisis? HELL NO.
if you don't hold it, you don't own it.

If your "money" is recorded as a liability on a bank's balance sheet, you may be in big trouble and soon. The dollar could drop 40% in a day. We could have a week long banking holiday. I think the FDIC WILL pay out and you will never "LOSE" your money, but it's purchasing power could surely evaporate overnight.

http://www.merkfunds.com/merk-perspe...005-02-16.html

Greenspan may have provided the answer to how reality is going to play out - he said: "We can guarantee cash, but we cannot guarantee purchasing power!"

If this poster had 50 or 100k to drop into metals, your advice would still be appallingly terrible, but at least make a TINY bit more sense...

I really cannot comprehend :

your aversion to silver??

your aversion to holding some real physical assets in your hand

if this guy was asking about 50k worth of metal I would be owrried about having it all in one place, and would be owrried about theft etc... but seriously... we're talking about... 21 pounds of silver here... do you know how easy it is to hide and conceal such a small amount of metals?

Sure there is more responsibility with holding onto physical possessions, and sure we live in a society that does not like to be held accountable for anything, including their own behavior. But the fact is, with great power comes great responsibility, and if we aren't willing to step up to the plate and gather up some real assets, the banksters will surely buy everything out from under us, as they already have done.

"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies"

"If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency.. the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

-Thomas Jefferson

I don't really understand why you're calling this Gold Shot "junk gold" it seems very misleading since it's obviously absolutely nothing like junk silver

Junk silver is 90% silver coins minted by the US government... like any dimes or quarters from 1964 or earlier..WL halves... etc etc

What would you describe he following item as??? :

http://www.apmex.com/Product/44274/S...ages_Live.aspx


If we were having a conversation and you referred to this item as "junk silver" I personally would believe you were referring to 90% silver coins minted by USgovt 1964 or earlier... but in reality you would be talking about something completely different.

I would most definitely recommend staying away from "silver shot" and "gold shot" but I would highly recommend BUYING junk silver if you can find a decent price. Sorry I spent so long stressing what seems like an insignificant point but I think it's best to clarify it in order to avoid confusion...

Once again I have to question whether you're maliciously and purposely trying to confuse people or you just don't know any better...

It's important to remember that you often get what you pay for, and its usually worth paying a little extra premium to have a highly recognizable, highly liquid item where there is absolutely no question about its weight, silver/gold content/ authenticity/ etc.

A ten ounce gold bar may look pretty and be worth a lot of money but its really not a great buy for the average investor. Unless youre planning to get at least a few hundred ounces of gold, I would not touch a 10 oz gold bar for the very reason you mentioned: it's very hard to separate, divide, etc. If you don't have at least 10 or 20 1/4 or 1/5 oz gold coins, at least 30 or 40 1/2 oz gold coins, and at least 50 or 60 1 oz gold coins, you have absolutely no business buying a 10 oz gold bar imho. Also if you don't already have a bunch of silver and platinum, you should probably not be touching gold at all since silver and platinum are much better buys than gold right now obviously. That's not to say gold is a bad buy though of course.

Cutting and shvaing and trying to divide a 10 oz gold bar is utterly ridiculous... but that doesn't necessarily mean you need to go to the other extreme and buy a bunch of gold / silver shot... that is just too small, not very uniform, not very recognizable, etc.

It's probably best to take a minute and think about how and why you might be selling or parting with your silver. If you plan ahead, you will not have to try to cut a 10 oz gold bar into pieces when you're bartering. This also brings me to another point : won't silver be infinitely better to use for bartering than gold??? if we start bartering with precious metals again, I believe that junk silver ( NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH SILVER SHOT) and highly recognizable 1 oz silver coins will be the preferred medium of exchange

You are ******ed.

Perhaps you should consider that you dont know the facts and thats why you keep losing money on your trades rather than trying to call the markets rigged.

inf0, im an american with a couple grand to invest (or hedge against hyperinflation). can you give me very explicit instructions on what to buy and who to buy it from? a link to where to buy it from would be very much appreciated.

inf0,

great advice.

however...i will be buying gold in the 600s.

have a nice day.

Meh, the more obvious answer is that plat is so illiquid that NYMEX futures got crushed from forced selling on margin calls because of other instruments during the crunch...
Coupled with a slow down in the auto industry, fundy wise..
who really cares though..the rear view mirror is pretty useless.
plat looks pretty nice through the windshield..

OK sorry, when I was replying to the previous poster and he said "junk silver bags" I thought he meant the sealed silver shot bags from APMEX.

Why would I purposely try to confuse people? Are you paranoid?

I mean, any kind of silver is great and all, but if you only have a couple of grand then I would recommend getting stuff like :

food that will last for a long time
lots and lots of seeds, specifically vegetable seeds.
a water filter or two
books on edible wild plants, carpentry, medicine, etc.

If you have extra cash after all of your more basic needs are met, then I would look to one of the sites I mentioned above such as

I will provide some links for good deals on buying seeds in bulk.

http://www.neseed.com/

this site neseed i have dealt with a few imes before and have been very satisfied. this site sells both heirloom seeds and hybrid seeds ( genetically modified ) .... ITS VERY VERY IMPORTANT that you BUY HEIRLOOM SEEDS

and

DO NOT BUY GENETICALLY MODIFIED HYBRID SEEDS.

If you do not know the difference between the two, you better find out soon.

A great reference for my information about genetically modified foods is Jeffrey Smith's book entitled GENETIC ROULETTE. This book is highly fascinating imo.

http://www.seedsavers.com

this site also i have heard is very good and they only sell heirloom seeds.

www.seedsofchange.com
http://www.horizonherbs.com/

these are also options... I highly recommend buying what you want to grow / eat. If you don't have a garden and it would be theoretically feasible for you to start one, I would highly recommend doing so as soon as you get some seeds in your hand. This will be the practice round. Next year when lettuce is 12 dollars a head and carrots are 5 bucks a pound you will be glad you have some limited experience trying to grow these things... knowledge is power.. you can't just throw money at the problem this time...

I hope I didn't come across as condescending here or anything like that. If you've got 20 or 30k to invest sure you should be buying up a significant amount of silver... if you have 2k or 5k to invest, you should really weigh your options and decide what you personally need the most to survive the upcoming collapse.

i'm not a trader, i rarely if ever trade. When I do trade I rarely have more than 2% of my NW at risk... I have risked up to 3-5% of my NW on a few very specific trades where I felt like I had a significant edge.

I can't think of a trade I lost money on in recent history...

most of my funds are invested for he long run... and i have made significant gains in the past few years( mostly due to the dollar weakening to be honest )... I have some ammo that I bought abou a year ago that i'm up 100% on...

Can you name 3 trades that i have lost money on in the past 3 years? I sure as hell can't...

Oh, and by the way, the markets are rigged

why not attack the facts / opinions that i present instead of calling me "******ed"? I rarely ever make personal attacks against you; I would lose credibility if I stooped to your level.

Never argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Why do you even post in this thread? You provide zero useful content, every other post you make is a personal attack.

I am calling on the mods to please ban yowserrrs for 3-7 days or whatever they deem fair for trolling, making personal attacks (lets face the facts, if any other poster was spewing the kind of nonsense that he is, they would already be permabanned... ), as well as posting utter nonsense and zero real, credible, original or even interesting content. Nobody is getting benefit/enjoyment from your posts. If i'm not allowed to post in investment advice threads, I see no reason why yows should be allowed to post in this thread...

I could see you buying a GLD ETF in the 600s sometime in the future...

but if you think you're going to get an ounce of real gold that you can hold in your hand in the 600s, then are you either :
a) delusional
b) are close to perfecting a time machine.

I'm a betting man, and all of my money is in on option A sir.

lol

bernanke and kohn (i think that's his name) had some good thoughts picked up by bloomberg about the awareness of the inflation issue and some out of the box ideas on how to reign in money...WAYYYY more than i've heard from anything greenspan and it actually sounds like he has a handle on the situation (i.e. gold and silver trades banking on the sick inflation coming out of this monetary expansion may be far too narrow minded).

now def some of this is 'talking it down' but i think there are DEFINITELy some oob type things he has in mind that he specifically isn't stating. to be fair, he's spent the better part of his adult life studying monetary policy and the great depression and is one of the most pre-eminant writers on the topic. i'd be surprised if he didn't have some thoughts / policies we havent heard of yet and won't until an 'appropriate' time.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aAHINzVhyplM

Barron