You didn't get what I was saying. I said it's not completely insane given the context (he's really smart and worked really hard). It's like the difference between relative and absolute strenght value.

I was addressing the relative aspect of what he did given who he is and you're addressing the absolute aspect of it (micro's to 10/20 in 6 months is completely insane no matter what)

i mean in the bluff challenge issue. why would they play on his account when they can make their own?

Yeah but it was his sponsor that confirmed he cheated didn't they?

I don't see why it is unreasonable to ask him, in a thread he started, what that is all about.

it wasnt 6 months tho, it was 8-10 months. still insane, but pretty sure anyone who talks poker with jose for over 30 minutes will know its possible...

Oh ok, yeah I agree.

It's not unreasonable at all. What IS unreasonable is jumping to conclusions and spouting them off as fact. Like using the fact that he speaks good English as some kind of proof that something is up. Or saying that because jungleman wants to move to Portugal he is obviously behind the account. Almost every big thread in NVG (that isn't a photoshop thread) is very unreasonable though so whatever.

Calling someone a jealous hater when they question foul play is an instance of argumentum ad hominem. It's an (invalid) argument.

I wouldn't recommend trying to complete with me in the English language arena tbh. I regularly proof-read PhD theses, for clarity of meaning in addition to grammar and spelling. I may get sloppy from time to time with typos but I have a pretty good idea of the meaning of the words I use

I don't doubt it. I know it sounds crazy to a lot of people here who have zero empathy/reading skills, but it's very clear from his interviews that he's incredibly mature for his age.

I had to remind myself while watching that he's only 18 yo. If you're not blinded by hate and envy, it's completely obvious that he's exceptionally strong mentally.

I wish I had that kind of brain chemistry balance when I was his age, or even now for that matter.

But weaklings are always going feel threatened by strong people and there's just no avoiding it.
Thankfully he seems to have already understood that it's best not to spend any energy arguing or even paying attention to that kind of stuff, and that is also to his credit; I know I would've gone crazy at his age getting this kind of pure hatred from hundreds of random losers.

And now, to take my own advice, I'll get on with my life and leave NVG for good.

Good luck Jose, just keep walking.

I am going to follow the general logic of this thread and make an accusation against you right now. I think you have been multi-accounting sir.

Given that you write very well and he ALSO writes very well, it's completely obvious that you are MarcoAntonio

Marry me?

In amongst the shouting isn't this reasonable?

He's an exceptional human being for his age, no argument from me there.

You're 100% wrong about it being best not to respond to the questions however. It's most definitely in his best interests to answer them if he's innocent. And you'd think exactly the same if this were any of the other suspicious threads on 2+2 (of which there are dozens) which resulted in misconduct being discovered. Innocent people instantly do everything in their power to provide information to clear their name, while guilty people disappear or ignore questions. It's a near-universal pattern in these threads.

What's with all the jealous hate?? I don't have to prove anything and I'm not going to waste my time responding to conspiracy theory haters. I have over 500 posts on this forum ffs, many of them well-written - why the hell would I need to make up another account???

Tell you what, if you put up $12billion then I'll prove that I am not MarcoAntonio. If you win I'll also marry you. Until then, stop the hating yo.

I don't see why it is unreasonable to defend yourself if you're being attacked. That is, if you have the truth to back you up.

It was 2 months ago that lock outted him for cheating and he has yet to answer the simplest question of all. What are the other violations they have discovered? Offcourse I know he can't answer that question.

There's a difference between not being able to answer a question and not answering a question. I can't imagine lock poker would disqualify him without telling him precisely why. That information is known to him, he just won't make it public. The question is why? I suppose you have to decide what is more damaging, revealing the truth or not revealing the truth. If I were a proper conspiracy theorist I'd surmise that the truth must be more damaging than silence. In this case it's actually a pretty straight forward decision as he has a lot of people who are willing to defend him regardless. Why damage your reputation further when you still have so many onside.

That was my point actually

Offcourse Lock has had a meeting with him first. They had to make it public but they wanted to do it with as less damage as possible.
If you think of it, it was probably the Merge gaming network who discovered the cheating, filled lock in and they decided to come up with that vague statement and then Girah had to come up with the backer story and hopefully that would be enough. Oh **** I am doing it again... (conspiracy theorist, jealous hater etc, you know )

Ah ok sorry. I'm tired, hungover and only vaguely interested in the thread.

seems to be a bunch of people convinced hes cheated or ghosted etc- why dont you guys start up another thread to pool together the money ( 100k ) he was willing to bet that he didnt cheat/ ghost/ collude and get a panel of judges etc.

I must say...if you don't believe every word of this thread...you're a jealous hater

I dont get all the "jealous hater" comments. I think someone had mentioned this before but NVG is the same crowd who gets hard over Ivey, Isildur, Galfond, Cates, Dwan and other internet superstars. What makes Girah different? Why all the misdirected hate if it is unfounded.

lol, I was the one that said that, and I was being sarcastic above.

So about this initial 30 Euro deposit.....
Two different versions both from Jose.
Begged mum who reluctantly agreed to deposit on betfair or lied to mum and said it was for new video game?
The kid has certainly got dissembling skills.

Thought it would be interesting to analyse 2+2 threads where someone was wrongly accused and their innocence subsequently proven. For every shady thread where misconduct was actually discovered, whether it's botting, MAing, colluding, scamming etc. (but this includes poker sites e.g. FTP funds, even stars' responses in threads to their changes such as the recent SNG changes, so not just players - and indeed I see the same thing regularly in the pool/billiards world as well. In fact it occurs in all walks of life, e.g. dodgy corporations / politicians etc.), you see the same pattern over and over again from the accused, namely:

- disappearing for a while & ignoring questions and requests for information (e.g. screennames, screenshots, hand histories) which would clear their name or clarify the issue;
- alternatively they respond but only to innocuous, irrelevant questions and attempt to divert attention from the important information
- providing 'evidence' which doesn't actually prove anything, or is in fact purely fabricated (e.g. photoshopped transfer screenprints from scammers)

Not saying these are the case here, but my point is that the pattern of avoiding questions asking for information which would prove innocence is universal in shady threads where violations are subsequently proven.

Now, here are some examples of people who were proven innocent. The patterns are VERY different...

1. FT bans player after some random scammer uses his username on 2+2.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-2-2-a-387333/

The accused immediately goes to all lengths possible to prove his innocence, provides all documentation requested and eventually the truth comes out and FTP reinstates his account and apologises for the inconvenience. This all resolved itself by the following day.

2. Titan locks account and then outright accuses player of providing fraudulent ID documentation
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...locked-458678/

The accused immediately re-sends scanned documents (inc. passport) at higher resolution. After Titan sends the new scans to the "relevant department", the accused's account is unlocked. The entire matter is resolved the same day.

3. Player's account locked and funds confiscated by Betfair after player accused of chipdumping
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...ccount-977884/

Player immediately posts hand histories - but not his sn. People repeatedly ask for his screennames and other info and he provides them soon afterwards. After providing lots and lots of detailed information about his account history and going to great lengths to get into contact with the Betfair team who considered the case closed and the player 100% guilty, Betfair eventually apologises for the wrongful accusation and re-opens the player's account. This is all resolved within 3 days.

4. Player's account suspended after 888 accuses him of chip dumping
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...mping-1047519/

OP immediately posts all email exchanges, sends hand histories to someone for analysis. Turns out he was accused of chip dumping to himself! 888 asks for ID documentation to be sent, re-instates his account and apologises for the inconvenience. This is all resolved within 4 days.

5. Player accused by Cake of chip dumping, has $60k confiscated (saying his opponent wasn't playing rationally)
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-sign-1040155/

OP immediately posts email exchanges and various info to affirm his innocence. People ask him for hand histories, and he immediately posts them (well, the following day). Huge consensus among 2+2 after OP provides all info that was asked that it's not chipdumping, that OP is innocent and that Cake are in the wrong. Sadly in this case, the matter isn't resolved...

~~~~~~~~

Note: I am not saying that any of this constitutes any proof obviously. But is it really surprising that people are suspicious (please note, this is not the same as jealous hatred lol), given the stark contrast between how threads develop in cases where the accused is guilty vs ones where the accused is innocent? Never in any of the cases where the accused is innocent does the person say something like "I don't have to prove myself to you guys" or "haters gonna hate". They always go to every length possible to provide whatever information they can to prove their innocence. And they certainly don't just ignore it for months...

It's a shame that all of the info here is anecdotal, but I definitely get your point, and think you're actually owning this thread rather well.

Well played.

He will start as a video producer for Pokerstrategy and did a live video interview with them! You can see the video interview and anouncement of his education video's here

Here are some quotes on US players playing on Euro sites post-UIGEA. Note that I am NOT saying this is proof of anything - obviously. I am merely quoting these for those people who say stuff like "why would a winning high stakes reg go to the effort of trying to play on a Euro site? where would they find the time? why would they need to?". The point is it happens. Quite a bit from what I can see in fact! Lots of shady stuff happens among HS players, this isn't even controversial for anyone who reads 2+2...



*** these 3 posts follow each other in the thread***
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***cough***

obv most US regs play on euro accounts using a vpn, but none of them create elaborate aliases hiring a random portuguese kid to make a 300k view thread just to level NVG and draw attention to their crime...