Could be you....

That's 100% right. If people didn't blindly trust everything they hear and read and do a little thinking and ask questions things like this FTP mess might not happen.

Jeez, count me paranoid now.

IMO the Stars motion to dismiss put pressure on the DOJ to give in to some of their terms. Thinking of it in poker terms:

Pre-flop: Indictments, etc. The cards were dealt.

Flop: The Motions to Dismiss

Say, for arguments sake, that Pokerstars made last minute demands (on July 9) to get more from the DOJ for settling - believing that the threat of the motion to dismiss would give them more leverage and/or that actually filing the motion to dismiss would give them move leverage. So either way, that made them willing to ask for things they may not have expected to get, but that were worth trying to get.

Now, it's a cat and mouse game. As MTD ruling date comes closer, more pressure on DOJ to give in to demands or risk getting nothing. The motion to dismiss was a pot-sized bet. DOJ is playing back at them, coming over the top with their motion for a min-raise. Mpethybridge makes it sound like DOJ might have air. If the Judge denies the motion, Pokerstars might see the DOJ as weak and come over the top fully aware of how strong it looks. Maybe at that point we get a settlement and the hand ends.

Kentucky's the rake in this ****ing game. We're the dealers that they are stiffing on tips.

At what point is it not a "tin foil hat conspiracy"? They stole over 300 million dollars and people are still not suspicious of what's going on.

You give them too much credit.

So everyone or the majority of the players should have known that FTP was in bad shape financially? Thats ridiculous and just ignorant..

1) if people knew that what happened with ft was going on, 100% of the players would not be playing there

2) are u trying to say that you knew better therefore didnt play on there? obviously you didnt bcuz u wouldve predicted this from the get go so that people would revel in ur "brilliance"

3) All of us who had rolls on there kept them in there because we were actually MAKING MONEY and wanted to move up in stakes. I was playing professionally on ft and trusted them enough to keep a roll on there..

4) stop making posts that don't make sense and are just meant to detract from the real situation.. you as 99% of the people on here don't know anything about the real situation going on with ft and should just bite ur tongue bcuz ur making urself look bad

+1

Read before posting a wall of text. I said questioning them then would have helped. Questioning them now should be common sense. Really simple. As for everything else you said, it has nothing to do with what I said.

Like Methyl said, the DOJ is given such an extreme level of discretion, especially in a civil case, that the odds of Judge Sands not at least granting their motion to attempt to make a case for alter ego is slim, and that's more than likely all they are trying to accomplish with this motion.

They had to already know their claim was shaky when they wrote it, since they didn't charge the actual offense to give rise to the claim.

Also, it bears repeating that the PS 'deal' discussions all began around the same time Campos/Elie were apparently told that the DOJ was only prepared to make IGBA charges in 10 States.

This is a mutually assured destruction scenario, neither side ever wants to end up at trial, so the logical expectation should be that they have/will reach(ed) a deal, and that Bitar wouldn't have turned himself in unless FTP was part of that deal.

Think about it, Bitar is in discussions for over a year, agrees to turn himself in, announces it's part of the process to get players repaid, gets hit with a new indictment and a motion to deny bail, is being charged with running a ponzi scheme which in his mind it wasn't, yet:

Not one comment from him or his lawyer. If the deal had fallen apart, Bitar's lawyer would be accusing the DOJ of pulling the plug after tricking him to get on the plane.

He'd be saying that the deal he secured was supposed to get players repaid, that players should be angry with the DOJ not his client, etc.

Matt Glantz quoted an FTP shareholder: "deal is done, they had to push it back for... ?" political reasons would be one guess, getting the others sentenced by Judge Kaplan first would be another.

So we had sufficient evidence to question them back then? Guess u know the future... And who isn't questioning them now? Y would anyone not question them now? I don't think anyone is not questioning them... i think people are just trying to understand where ft went wrong.. They obviously made mistakes and with the new information that was released it seems like the intent was purposeful in withdrawing funds for specific owners...

I just want this debacle to be over whether i get my money or not. Obviously i want my money and want PS to take over and be our white knight. Personally I don't think it's going to happen and I hope I'm wrong. Ft made terrible financial decisions, and hey have no excuse for what they did. Bitar and other capos should be held responsible to the maximum the law allows. But if u ask me would i rather get my money and let them walk free or not get my money and let them rot in jail? I pick my money obviously

You do realise that, according to the superceeding indictment, players did question FTP (re. sgregation of player funds) and were lied to?

What makes you think they would have answered other questions truthfully?

I don't know why you keep saying the same thing over and over. YOU SHOULD QUESTION EVERYONE AND NOT BLINDLY TRUST ANYONE.
That is my point. The fact that everyone Is once again sitting back and not questioning anything is what let's people scam them.

Unless you're a winning player. Then you get the claw, as DOJ gorilla math will apply!

It's incredible how intricate and complicated this whole issue is.

I read this thread everyday and have read every post contained therein and I still scratch my head.

There is a myriad of issues involved; FTP, PS, DOJ, several judges, Kentucky, motions, fugitive doctrines, MTD, Isai, Bitar/Lederer counsel etc. The list goes on and on.

I just wish this case was a simple one party selling something to another but unfortunately it isn't. As a result, when one of these branches of the issue goes awry, people think the sky is falling and with it, any chance of a deal.

I realize people are trying to explain as best they can to those not familiar with legal speak, mpathy, DF, Skall, Tamiller, and I hope they continue to do so as it is appreciated.

For those who feel reading this thread everyday is akin to banging your head on the wall, quite possibly it is. However that does not mean the people with sources or information are holding back in any way and ultimately are not in the same boat as the rest of us.

We all just want our money.

You should start your own religion.. You're a wise man.... *eyeroll*

Sadly, yes i agree with you 100%.... time will tell i guess

Turns out Full Tilt didn't simply not decide to file a motion to dismiss. One day after the deadline (Monday, July 16 deadline), the government submitted a letter to the Judge requesting (on behalf of Full Tilt) a one-week extension until next Monday, July 23.

"Upon the request of the Full Tilt Poker entities ("Full Tilt"), the Government respectfully writes to request a brief adjournment of certain upcoming deadlines.

Specifically, Full Tilt requests, without opposition from the Government, the following amendments to the current scheduling deadlines in regard to the Government and Full Tilt: Full Tilt shall have until July 23, 2012, to file a motion to dismiss and the Government shall have until that same date to file a motion to strike the claim ofFull Tilt.

2.Unless further amended by the Court, opposition to any motion to dismiss filed by Full Tilt and to any motion to strike the claim of Full Tilt filed by the Government shall be filed by August 13, 2012.

3. Replies regarding such motion to dismiss and such motion to strike shall be filed by August 20,2012.

-------

So, you would think all parties are aiming to get this settled before August 20, at which point the Judge can rule on the MTD's.

Unless of course stays and other delays are granted, which seems to be the norm rather than the exception...

Why would the government request this on behalf of Full Tilt? That seems unusual to this layperson.

There was no way of knowing. As said both PS and FT said the funds were seperate. Both were under a gaming commission oversight. FT was a private company so they don't have to show the books or have the books audited. All of us had the same information. One company lied to everyone, the other didn't.

None of us knows how this will shake out but hopefully what we are seeing is the positional jockeying that goes on as part of the "settlement dance," that these parties will get their dispute resolved and we will never know how things might have gone.

Pethybridge, Esq. and TAmiller have done a good jobs of analysis and their comments are worthy of re-reading. I think DOJ's motion is shaky but it's not a level playing field in USDC.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, and which will never be seen unless this all goes bad, is that PS's excellent attorneys certainly have long planned for DOJ's motion, and its possible success, most likely through sophisticated asset protection maneuvers, including, among other things, the development of capital resources in independent business organizations in the single market nations where PS is licensed and regulated and in full compliance with all applicable laws. These markets are probably safe harbors.

As I said above, while I think this is most likely to get resolved and we will never know "what might have happened," the danger with DOJ's action is that if DOJ would be successful (leaving PS defenseless in US courts), or is PS becomes convinced DOJ will be successful, then PS is left with few alternatives other than implementing the most extreme defensive planning. That almost certainly would not be good for former FTP players.

My point is two years from now people will be saying how there was no way to tell FTP would never pay us back. With almost no outrage and a bunch of apathetic poker players saying "don't worry the latest white knight company will pay us back just be patient". We will continue to be strung along.

Probably for the same reason they suddenly reached a bail agreement for Bitar after Kaplan recused himself.

... I think this is most likely to get resolved and we will never know "what might have happened,"
sry my english is not very good, wat do u mean?

The pros have sat back and said nothing. No one is being held accountable. The ****ing FTP owners are playing million dollar buy in tournaments!!!! How ridiculous is that? You think they are scared of clawbacks doing stuff like that?? You think they didn't get an ok from lawyers to still play poker? They obviously aren't expecting any repercussions to behave like that.
With zero public outrage or questions they get off with no problem. How are we a year later and not one pro other than Daniel Negranu has spoken up for us players ??