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FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP) FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)
View Poll Results: Do you want the AGCC to regulate the new FTP?
Yes
1,156 56.58%
No
887 43.42%

05-21-2012 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskermoney00
I'm going to say this blizz.... I really don't see them making one DURING the WSOP.... it's going to be before or after. Lol.... now I pry sound like china huh? They could have been ready when this news first broke.... but just wanted to wait. Who knows.... It's just my opinion. I am entitled to think what I want right?
I don't think the WSOP has any bearing on the decision whatsoever. 99% of online players will never play a WSOP tournament so why should it be an important factor at all?
05-21-2012 , 10:40 PM
They will announce it whenever they are ready to sign the papers, if ever. The DOJ isn't going to plan their settlement schedule around a poker tournament
05-21-2012 , 10:40 PM
for all u conspirators i was on the .com page an hour ago and it was completely blank white page. one hour later the doj page back. definitely someone tinkering with something...
05-21-2012 , 10:43 PM
man what a silly turnaround it would be if DOJ declined "crappy yes, but at least something" deal by GBT, just to get Stars to think about their new deal and cancel it.
so sick of this drama
05-21-2012 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDSaussure
I don't think the WSOP has any bearing on the decision whatsoever. 99% of online players will never play a WSOP tournament so why should it be an important factor at all?
Just saying, the deal could be done.... and they wanted to make an announcement when everything sort of calmed down after the SCOOP, when things sort of calmed down after the news broke and it was still in the early stages of trying to be completed, and before the WSOP starts. Just saying.... just my thoughts....
05-21-2012 , 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -sham-
for all u conspirators i was on the .com page an hour ago and it was completely blank white page. one hour later the doj page back. definitely someone tinkering with something...
getting the same thing now. Hopefully it's something good! That would be nice if they were trying to get that DOJ info on that page huh?
05-21-2012 , 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelott_
man what a silly turnaround it would be if DOJ declined "crappy yes, but at least something" deal by GBT, just to get Stars to think about their new deal and cancel it.
so sick of this drama
this is my thoughts 100%.... but thats why i'm pretty confident the stars deal will be completed... i mean the DoJ wouldn't just say FU to GBT w/o being pretty confident in stars... not to mention stars has a pretty good track record of getting **** done the right way.
05-21-2012 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskermoney00
Just saying, the deal could be done.... and they wanted to make an announcement when everything sort of calmed down after the SCOOP, when things sort of calmed down after the news broke and it was still in the early stages of trying to be completed, and before the WSOP starts. Just saying.... just my thoughts....
If the WSOP factored in at all to Stars' timeline they would have gotten things done long enough in advance that people could get paid out to use their money to play WSOP events so Stars could jump in and sponsor players left and right. As another poster said, the DOJ isn't considering the WSOP at all with this situation.
05-21-2012 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipItYo
this is my thoughts 100%.... but thats why i'm pretty confident the stars deal will be completed... i mean the DoJ wouldn't just say FU to GBT w/o being pretty confident in stars... not to mention stars has a pretty good track record of getting **** done the right way.
+1
05-21-2012 , 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipItYo
this is my thoughts 100%.... but thats why i'm pretty confident the stars deal will be completed... i mean the DoJ wouldn't just say FU to GBT w/o being pretty confident in stars... not to mention stars has a pretty good track record of getting **** done the right way.
+2
05-21-2012 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipItYo
i mean the DoJ wouldn't just say FU to GBT w/o being pretty confident in stars...
I agree with the rest but not this. I don't believe the DOJ was going to just settle with the extremely crappy deal that GBT was proposing. The DOJ called FTP a ponzi scheme and while that can be argued, the deal GBT had on the table was basically just that, offering little to nothing up front, then using future player rake to pay off debts.

I know there's a lot of people who don't care who gets it done as long as they get their money, but I can't imagine what 2+2 would look like if GBT's "everyone gets $100 then waits 1-5 years for the rest" deal went through.
05-21-2012 , 11:02 PM
you can no longer download the FTP software from their site.. just says help center is down for maintenance.. i downloaded the latest software a few days ago so this page is new


05-21-2012 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesright
how many times will you trot out this argument in the face of evidence that suggests they committed various forms of accounting and banking fraud.

Those were not naive acts.

Those were pre planned criminal acts that took a lot of prior thought.
And how many times are you simply going to accuse them of nothing but criminal acts? I don't speak out of ignorance, I had to skate on thin ice myself, but I knew to be careful. Their actions speak more to stupidity, ignorance and desperation than a planned criminality. How were they supposed to get away w/ simply stealing money? And many of those that got money likely had no idea whatsoever that it wasn't legit. I've used Allen Cunningham consistently. Do you consider him a criminal? What they ended up doing may have been criminal but I can't bring myself to believe that they set up the entire enterprise from the beginning planning on robbing the players. Here's an interview w/ Bitar that I found:

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2005/0...o-tiltware.htm

An equities trader. Obv I think the founders picked a poor choice to be the chief operating officer of the company. Compare FTP to Stars: One w/ a real business experienced leader and one w/o and pro poker players on the board. In the poker community they were respected because they were successful poker players, not bec they were great business persons.

Everything they did was traceable and documented w/i the company's records. They didn't keep 2 sets of books (due diligence by multiple parties should've turned that up by now). They didn't have a cushion and apparently no contingency plans. Their greatest blunder, imo, was a lack of ability to understand the implications of the trend lines and the inability to pull the plug when they should have. Compare again to Stars: They cut off the non-working deposit option, had a wider player base, and while we can't look into their books I think it safe to say that they didn't make distributions beyond what was reasonable and sustainable. I hope that you get my point which is that those ppl had no business running a business that was operating on the edge post UIGEA.

Quote:
Offering ROW players bonuses to get them to deposit while knowing you cant pay is not "lack of business experience"
Desperation, pure and simple. They were already buried and a last ditch effort to survive. In the hole for hundreds of millions, no way out, 'we'll take one last shot' mentality.

Quote:
These were people who claimed to be very smart and had very educated backgrounds.
You wouldn't invest w/ somebody who claimed to be very smart and educated just on their word. Would you invest your entire net worth under the direction of Stephen Hawking w/o checking his record? Yet many entrusted them w/ great sums. Why? Because we thought that they had a gold mine despite what we knew or should have known of the dangers. Post UIGEA the banhammer was going to drop sooner or later w/o a doubt. Nobody saw their financials, all they ever did was proclaim that player's money was safe. Their words, no proof. If they were criminals then at least call us suckers.

Quote:
Save you seen Howard's "business ethics" video?
Big deal. He was on top of the world at the time. And too stupid to know his world was built on quicksand.



Quote:
You have to give Joey some credit here.

He has been called everything from idiot to genius.....
I can understand his outrage. He thinks we are being played. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.
05-21-2012 , 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XaQ Morphy
I agree with the rest but not this. I don't believe the DOJ was going to just settle with the extremely crappy deal that GBT was proposing. The DOJ called FTP a ponzi scheme and while that can be argued, the deal GBT had on the table was basically just that, offering little to nothing up front, then using future player rake to pay off debts.

I know there's a lot of people who don't care who gets it done as long as they get their money, but I can't imagine what 2+2 would look like if GBT's "everyone gets $100 then waits 1-5 years for the rest" deal went through.
NO KIDDING! I think everyone would much rather a wait a few more months, than years to get their money back and wait to see what happens with this PS whole ordeal.
05-21-2012 , 11:17 PM
hmm.... something else here.... you can't ping any of the FTP sites, you could last week.... and yeah you can't even attempt to download the software.
05-21-2012 , 11:54 PM
I have inside information.

My guts tell me the Stars deal will be completed soon.
05-21-2012 , 11:55 PM
^^^^ ban your guts if wrong imo.
05-22-2012 , 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XaQ Morphy
I agree with the rest but not this. I don't believe the DOJ was going to just settle with the extremely crappy deal that GBT was proposing. The DOJ called FTP a ponzi scheme and while that can be argued, the deal GBT had on the table was basically just that, offering little to nothing up front, then using future player rake to pay off debts.

I know there's a lot of people who don't care who gets it done as long as they get their money, but I can't imagine what 2+2 would look like if GBT's "everyone gets $100 then waits 1-5 years for the rest" deal went through.
According to Tapie, DOJ seemed to approve Tapie's proposal at first then changed mind at the 11th hour. Otherwise you can't explain why Tapie waste so much time and money on the deal if they knew their payment plans wont fly with DOJ. They are not fools.
05-22-2012 , 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by waq
I have inside information.

My guts tell me the Stars deal will be completed soon.
Your guts are probably a more reliable source than that fraud china man.
05-22-2012 , 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momo_the_kid
According to Tapie, DOJ seemed to approve Tapie's proposal at first then changed mind at the 11th hour. Otherwise you can't explain why Tapie waste so much time and money on the deal if they knew their payment plans wont fly with DOJ. They are not fools.
Yeah that's what I'd say too if my ploy didn't work and I wanted to direct the blame to someone else. Just like how I'd make it public that big name pros owe money, so I can set up a blame deflect there as well.

If you haven't, I suggest you read DF's article about Tapie's proposed deals. It wasn't just one deal that he was working on that got shot down. It was much more than that.
05-22-2012 , 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by waq
I have inside information.

My guts tell me the Stars deal will be completed soon.
as long as your name isn't Todd Hoffman
05-22-2012 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesright



You have to give Joey some credit here.

He has been called everything from idiot to genius.....
If everyone put the pressure where it belonged from the beginning we would probably have had a resolution by now. I still say they found ways to stall all this time. After all we still haven't even received a confirmation that poker stars is even working on a deal. Diamond flush herself still hasn't confirmed its actually stars. Why is that ? She will only say someone but not who.
05-22-2012 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskermoney00
It's just my opinion. I am entitled to think what I want right?
Of course, but if you're going to get so defensive every time somebody questions your opinions, you should save yourself the trouble and not post every single mini-light bulb moment you have.
05-22-2012 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzuff
Of course, but if you're going to get so defensive every time somebody questions your opinions, you should save yourself the trouble and not post every single mini-light bulb moment you have.
I don't get mad.... just defend them like everyone else does on a forum
05-22-2012 , 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Glove
Because it makes no sense to stop and do nothing until this gets resolved.

When this first broke out, I thought it might take two or more years to resolve, there was no way in the world I was just gonna stand around doing nothing other than reading a thread everyday.
When did I ever say anyone wasn't moving on with their lives??

      
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