I know you guys are bickering back and fourth, but the important thing right now is the bingo site... Anyone know if it's still launching today?

Desert Rose announced its bingo site months ago. You do not get that the Santa Ysabel announcement prompted them to repeat that again ?

It would be a sideshow if they launch, although it might make them, rather than the Santa Ysabel tribe the whipping boy for Calirnia and DOJ.

Don't hold your breath, although it may happen to launch eventually.

Personally, I DO hope they launch Desert Rose bingo for real money off the reservation before the Santa Ysabel poker site launches.

What world have you been watching, one where there is not already "complicated court and legislative actions" going on for 8+ years re allocating the US poker market among favored US casino interests ?

Understand the word "catalyst" ?

cat·a·lyst
/ˈkatl-ist/
noun: catalyst

" a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing any permanent chemical change.
•a person or thing that precipitates an event".

If this tribe's theory prevails, the action in California will heat up on many fronts and force action, where none is foreseeable down the "clear path" you want to walk.

Politics is messy and complicated, and in California, somewhat stagnant.

But, never-mind, keep whining about Indians and ignore their contribution in the US and Canada to the poker industry.

I wonder if this will go anywhere..but hey gotta love the "You can deposit at our smoke shop!" line..rad.

even this thread is highly informative (thanks to all the authors), this post made it worth 5 stars


yeah, definitely needs more love. but i guess, they have to know you, before you can deposit #HeyBlackAss #HalfBakedReference

anyway, i contacted PS if they soon offer the Smoke Shop Deposit ... no reply yet :-(

I'm with Quixote here. Online poker was beyond fine pre 2006. Couldn't have been better really. Anyone who wanted could play anyone else in the world with the swipe of a Visa card. That was the free market, and how can you beat that?

In fact I'm hard pressed to find one positive thing any government has done for ipoker

What is depositing like now for NJ/DE/NV? Is it not the same as it was back then?

Visa deposits are declined often. Some echecks get declined. Ultimate Poker seems to be the only site that can process a withdrawal in less than 3 days.

Somebody is listening. The finpay.net web site now just puts an "under construction" page up, instead of the immature site that was there.

It's been that way since yesterday morning.

Here's a good article I read by Haley Hintze today with her take on the whole situation. She addresses finpay and i agree with her, makes sense to me. http://www.4flush.com/online-poker-n...er-scene/17437

I will be depositing on the 1st tribal or state regulated state that sets up shop in CA (could care less which) no doubt. Having been a lifetime CA resident i dont see any possible way any tribe gets more than a slap on the wrist (which would even be extreme imo) for anything online gambling related. I also think the chance that Iipay nation isn't bluffing here and is really going to do this is much higher than most others. I trust the tribes more than Party/bwin by far based on what I've read about row pp and NJ pp etc.

Sure is interesting either way!

I just registered to play around with the software (oh god it's sooo special!!) and the free money..as of right now It looks like only me and one other player are online! yes!!

yup, I think this is about right. I'll throw my ten bucks out there, just for kicks.

yeah it's like them saying stick that in ur pipe n smokit.

This just gets better and better. Visiting the finpay.net site this morning, it generates a "Connection is Untrusted" warning, with these details:
singlesandcocktails.com is registered through Panama.

Going forward to the finpay.net site through the security warning, I am auto-forwarded to https://www.profitpoint.com/, a non-working site (all it's page links just reload the home page), created in 2013, for providing Loyalty, Reward and Gift Card programs to merchants:
Registered to:
Note that this address belongs to churchloyalty:

profitpoint was acquired by: clutchloyalty.com in August 2013. They are registered to:
wtf?

i mean are you really surprised? Their main address is a PO BOX lol

I don't get those error messages right now. But there is no way to even sign up..just a log on screen with no "Sign Up" links or anything.. I am going to out on a limb here and say they just weren't ready at all.

The tribe's lawyer weighs in:
Attorney: California real-money online poker site legal

Of course, out of necessity to make the legal argument for the tribe, he ignores the fact that online poker is not actually a poker game but rather an electronic facsimile of a poker game. IGRA addresses this specifically as an exclusion for Class II gaming (and specifically gives an exception for electronic aids for bingo gaming):
So, we have the usual conundrum of whether or not Congress intended non-banked card games like poker to be considered "games of chance", as this term is not defined as part of the statute.

This article reviews the issue in a bit more detail:
INTERNET LAW - Does the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act Cover Internet Gaming?

Back in 2004, the Acting General Counsel of the National Indian Gaming Commission, Penny Coleman, ruled in an Opinion Letter:
The issue was to allow Trips or Better Poker, a non-house banked card game, to be played on the fully electronic table by Digital Card System as Class 2 gaming.

This Opinion Letter, and other rulings I have read of the NIGC, lead me to the conclusion that the Santa Ysabel's legal argument will not hold up. Online poker will not be held to be Class II gaming.

The Finpay site is back up.

Yeah, looks a lot better now. But you still can't sign up for an account on their site. Maybe you will only be able to sign up through the gaming client.

Xanadu,

Have enjoyed reading most of your posts on the subject thus far, but who says online poker = electronic facsimile? I thought electronic facsimile referred to slots

http://definitions.uslegal.com/e/ele...cal-facsimile/

^link shows the legal definition. It clearly states the exception is when the electronic format allows for multiple players to play against one another, and not vs the house. Seems that the electronic facsimile part excludes slots but not online poker?

.

Seems like customer support keeps changing the launch. Now they are saying it is launching in a couple of weeks.

No, you forgot this part of the definition:
(And in case you are wondering, poker does not fit "other games similar to bingo." I just don't have the reference to hand.)

In general you are misinterpreting this definition. The definition doesn't state multiple player games as "the exception". The exception is what I quoted above, bingo & lotto when the electronics expand those as multi-player games.

When you delve into more of the details in the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (where this definition originates), it is simply distinguishing between electronic aids, which are specifically allowed for Class II-type bingo & lottos under IGRA, and electronic facsimiles, which are not allowed for Class II gaming of any sort under IGRA.

In fact, if you read my post above again, the last quote I included from the NIGC Opinion Letter clarifies that even electronic aids change non-banked card games from Class II gaming into Class III gaming. The Opinion Letter ruling applied specifically for a Class II-type, multi-player, non-house-banked poker game (a 6-player version of 5-card stud, trips or better, with the house collecting antes as its rake) run with a live dealer on a table where electronic cards are dealt electronically to the players at each seat.

If this type of live electronic table makes a non-house-banked, multi-player poker game into Class III gaming per the statutory language of IGRA, then surely the NIGC would similarly rule that online poker is Class III gaming.