You guys should really read the Girah threads. Even if you just go back and read the cliffs in the first post of each thread by SGT RJ.

Bilzerian knew he was outmatched. He'll readily admit he's the equivalent of a minor league baseball player in terms of poker skill. But the people or person he won the bulk of his wealth from are tee-ballers. Hell, he even said he was playing heads up nosebleed stakes with a guy who was literally playing blind every hand.

Anybody that's made a living in this game has worked an angle at some point or another. EVERYONE

Connecting via VPN to play on sites your not legally allowed to, to switching screen names, to HUDS, etc.

It's part of the game.

It's not cheating/predatorial to line up a mega fish who thinks he has a chance to win, so much so that you have to have a camera on his face to make sure it's him and then he goes and suckers your ass?

This is a game of life not poker! All Jungleman needs to say is I was playing life, not poker. Or it was "business".

You don't think Perkins or Blizerian ever gave someone a raw deal in "business"? Or deceived them? Are they pieces of **** cheaters? Or no, because society says anything goes in business?


I think I'm going to go watch "The Sting" as I go to bed.

What a foolish statement. Unreal.

lol HUDs = angle

What a load of shite. Another guy who thinks part of being a winning card player is acting like a scumbag at any opportunity that presents itself.

It's not hard to see why being a poker pro is seen as a scummy profession by many people when the general attitude of many of you on to how to comport yourself in society seems to akin to a low-rent carny hustler or a dude slinging little plastic baggies of over-stepped on dope on a ghetto corner. "Rip off anyone you possibly can, any time you can."

You want to think your skill deserves respect and that the game deserves recognition for skill. I'm sure the top chess pros all feel hiding an iPhone running Stockfish in the toilets is just "part of the game" too.

This has been quite eye opening, I must say.

You don't think your typical clueless online fish would be butt hurt to know that there is software people use to analyze and exploit their play? Perkins tried to hustle a bunch of whales to play nosebleed stakes and give him their money and now wants to cry because his plan went afoul and some of the whales hustled him back. That's gambling. You find or create an edge. Since these sites are play money but settled outside with real money it's not like there are any T&C with regards to ghosting anyway.

Spinning in circles, but wasn’t your typical looking over the shoulder ghosting.
It’s a private club for recs playing massive stakes. Jungle got an account off a guy who used his webcam while jungle played as the whale. Maybe it’s not that bad, but it sure isn’t honest or show integrity, which is something jungle says he has in recent blogs.

If you play online these days expect to be cheated in some form, esp at HS

Find it humorous that you are going so hard at pokerplayers, how about you challenge 100 chessplayers for a friendly game of onlinechess for SIGNIFICANT amount of money and report back how many that deviated from moves stockfish would do?


You think mr GASTRADER is in a pure profession? it is one of the dirtiest ones there is.


scumbags exist everywhere, its nice to have a pure outlook on life but its costly. I prefer the naive way of life for the most part too, but in other areas than MONEY. Even without money ppl gonna scumbag to some extent, even in games with no money involved you gonna find some small% of idiots using stockfish in chess, maphack,aimbots in computergames, etc.


derail about chess in case anyone interested havent seen, superfun to watch vods of magnus carlsen playing chess drunk on his second account, giving grandmasters 5 free moves obv unannounced and still win and so on

Connecting to sites you can't play with VPN because of geo location isn't against spirit/ethics of the game. Changing your screenname and playing in another account like Hastings did for example that's cheating the game. Apparently most people knew it was him but as a few later complained many others didn't. That's an ignorance a player can't do nothing about. HUD's are allowed, screen name change only sometimes and in some sites.

Granted this private game issue is minor, but this relativization of cheating is what makes the world so unfair for many people and so much corruption going on in every aspect of society. It probably isn't more prevalent in poker/gambling, in moments of crisis many things get exposed in other areas too. It seems in poker there's always an incentive for most of it to get exposed though.

But not if you are on a site that allows changing your screen name. Do these play money for real money sites even have T&Cs? You are allowed to multi account on pppoker, in fact you have to if you play multiple tables. AFAIK there is nothing wrong with someone else playing on your account either.

I'd be interested to know how exactly this game got started. Did it form organically? Or was it set up, presumably for the advantage of the person setting it up? Because if you have someone initiating a game, organizing it with just a bunch of fish, and then the fish turn around and all get ghosted, which seems to be what Jungle is saying happened, then that seems to me to be turnabout is fair play. You try to organize things, set things up to your benefit, take advantage of other player's inexperience for extremely high stakes, well yah sometimes things aren't going to go your way.

not everyone is doing this

Hi Haseeb Qureshi ! How's corporate world treating u ?

I am wondering, if this will be the end of the story

I really don't understand why there are so many posters trying to justify jungle's behavior - fraud ruins peoples' lives.

The poker community doesn't have much of a future if it is unwilling to strongly condemn these actions.


And his clowny, illogical, unapologetic twitter / google doc statement should make that much more apparent.

exactly!

if cyclists were anything like poker players, after armstrong got caught, everyone would just say 'he is certainly not the only one doing it, so who cares' and 2020 tour de france would be battle of the steroids

not saying doping is banned out now, but its certainly less present now its condemned by the public

For what it's worth:

Going from Perkins account in the video, this game was set up as a place specifically for high stakes fun players to get a game without being bum-hunted. They had to have a personal invite, passworded, and have cameras on them at all time.

He liked the sound of it when he was approached by the guys running the club, and they encouraged him to invite other people. He invited a few, and was playing in the games.

Then it became clear that a bunch of the people were paying poker pros to ghost their accounts.

Jungle set up a deal with this guy whereby he would sit in front of the camera and pretend to play while Jungle actually played using Teamviewer.

Perkins is now trying to find out if this was just a big scam all along, with recruiters involved along with a bunch of pros. Or if it was just Jungle. Or somewhere in between, which seems most likely.

PPPoker/PokerBros is a haven for cheats, and joining wide-open clubs or unions, you are asking to be ripped off, from collusion especially. There's a reason why they have 5 and 6 Card Omaha as popular options after-all. You get a guy playing three accounts at the same table with VPNs, or 3 guys colluding with screen share, that's 1/3 of the deck. It's rife with scumbags in other words. I think we can all agree that this is 100% cheating.

This is no different. Jungle and this guy put lots of time and effort and worked out a deal where they would both conspire to rip off a bunch of guys who thought they were playing in a private game for fun players. It's pretty filthy, and I don't see any difference between him and Chinese holecard sharers or Will Kassouf stealing his friends chips when they fell on the casino floor.

Simply, these guys had money that Jungle felt he was entitled to. They didn't want to play him at cards for their money, so he cheated them. The end.

It's like buying stolen credit cards.

Jungle was enriching himself, in an opportunity not available through legimate means, fully aware of the harm it inflicted on others.

I'll put it in a way you can understand. The Bills thought they were playing the Jets but it turned out to be the Patriots in disguise.

Less present? Are you serious? If they are physically capable of cycling freaking 30 miles uphill why juice up in the first place? I had a childhood friend who was semi amateur cyclist in a small town of a 3rd world country and he had to use just to stay in the club, when he was like 15-16y.o, and you are saying 2020 tour is not battle of the steroids?

That's he's story. The other story is that it's money his dad stolen.

I always wondered why someone who loves attention as much as Dan does never played the big one for one drop. I guess it's because he doesn't want people to see how bad he plays, making it obvious where the cash come from, imo.

I think the most perfect analogy would be that if Galfond's RIO site was set up so wasn't actually anonymous for Galfond and a bunch of his HS pro mates, and they could all use HUDs and see the real screen names for everyone else.

And then a bunch of them, and people on this site, were just saying "Part of the game dude" and "You only wanted to play anonymously because you thought it gave you an edge but you just got outsmarted lol" and "Most of the people playing on Galfond's sites are douchebags anyway" and "Some of those accounts were like, businessmen and lawyers and stuff, and they're all dirty too".

And then Galfond released a statement saying "One of my friends got caught in the crossfire and I'm sorry for him" and "It's regrettable that this occurred".

oh you had a friend who used steroids in a semi-amateur cycling club... that certainly says a lot about the tour

in the old tours it was allowed to use steroids and winners admitted to it without titles being taken away from them.. back then 100% used
nowadays you risk to lose a lot from taking steroids and there are definitely clean cyclists in the tour, of course not all of them. But certainly way less % now its punished then back when it wasnt.

Although the fact you know one guy in a semi amateur biking club in a 3rd world country who did 'cheat' i still one hell of an argument of everybody in the tour doing it

oh yea, and its not about just being physically capable of cycling freaking 30 miles uphill but also about getting there first, and cheating (steroids) help

see that as using illegal seating scripts, its a way of cheating to get better seats than opponents who arent and therefore should be condemned

Actually, it does say a lot. He had to use just to stay on the same level as everyone else, and the only reason he eventually quit. You made it sound like I said he did it voluntarily to get an edge. No, they all did it because if you don’t you’re drawing dead.

Just watch ikarus slugant. Documentary about a cyclist that juices on purpose to see if he can avoid steroidtests to figure out how lance avoided tearing positive on 500+ tests. Spoiler: he did it easily.

Now proceed to claim the tour is juicefree lol, this is on the same level as claiming bodybuilders on the stage are natty. The most tested athlete in history never got caught, he admitted on his own behalf but you still think it’s natty? Ok. Got tons of bridges for sale!

Edit: ok I got trolled, wp