Candy Crush patented the word Candy on mobile games.

That means they invented the word Candy.

I guess it depends how you look at it. If you are saying that they didn't agree to running the game during the day or the other demands we made, then yes, that decision was not ours. We would have liked to run the actual MAP game there, not just the beta test of the game that will be released this year. However, I understand and respect their decisions and am grateful to Adam and the Aria for allowing us to put an unfinished product/beta test in such a prestigious poker room. I am sure in the future, with the new changes, they may decide to try the finished product instead of just the beta test.


I wouldn't expect anything less from you. But thank you for your help.

For anyone who wanted to understand the situation with the dealers, Please read bercules, who is a dealer at Aria, previous posts in regard to MAP. Then feel free to read all the posts that contradict him. Berk please dont feel the need to respond as your position is very clear. This is not a shot at you, it just so happens you make the perfect example of how much the dealers supported this fun innovative game that players, especially casual players, loved to play.

Yes it was confirmed at the beginning of this thread on my first post. And yes, in that post I do admit I am the donk. Thanks for sharing. Zini's is still open if you want to order some pizza or wings.

You make some good points. IF you release something to the public before patents are filed, then it is very hard to patent the Item or idea. However, Patents were filed for MAP long before the idea was ever presented to the Aria, or put out for a public beta test. I would prefer not to discuss the legal aspects of our patents or patent pending's. If it is really really important to, you, I am sure you can find them by spending some time and searching for them on the US govt site.

Once again thanks to everyone for your renewed support. And keep following this thread as we will post announcements here first before any other outlets.

Thanks
Tim or
Pizza Tim

You're welcome. Best of luck. If this is truly a "fun innovative game that players, especially casual players, loved to play," then I'm sure it will flourish beyond your wildest dreams, and that will literally be awesome.

I don't feel the need to respond, merely the desire.

My posts reflected the opinion of the majority of dealers I spoke with, especially in private when they didn't have to be company men.
The rebuttals were from players or people invested in the product - never did I see a post from a dealer saying "no, I love dealing that game, keep it coming!" I was giving voice to the unspoken side of the equation, and "clarifying" some "facts" that I felt needed correction. I think it was clear I hated dealing the game, but it was never personal. I promise.

I'm sure your product can be successful even if the employees hate it, as long as the demand is there. Example: the daily tournaments at Aria - the downs are the lowest $ in town, but the fields are huge - because they have a very professional staff, for the most part. People like the tournament, so they play it. They don't ask the dealers before signing up, if they enjoy dealing the tournament - nor should they. Key point: as long as the demand is there. If people were lined up to play MAP, I'm fairly certain the "issues" you had there wouldn't exist.

Anyway, best of luck - I hope you have much success. The game doesn't interest me as I'm already easily frustrated by the lack of attention players/dealers give the normal (one dealer) game to keep it running smoothly. Seems to me the bad players would gum up the works, and the players who are skilled enough to smoothly play two tables aren't the people I'm generally looking to play against. That doesn't mean there aren't people it won't appeal to, I'm sure there are. I'm honestly not rooting against you. I did genuinely hate dealing it, and don't think it CAN succeed, but that doesn't mean I don't want it TO succeed. No hard feelings, I hope.

Yes, my name is Berk.
No, I am not a dealer at Aria.
I left Aria (on my own, on good terms), over 6 months ago, but I still play there several days a week.

Fwiw, I probably won't post on this thread anymore, as it doesn't affect me personally - as long as I don't see blatant untruths about the experience, or my name mentioned specifically. Take care.

Here comes a thread hijack:

The fields in this tournament are huge because of the staff?? Am I reading that right? I will be the first to say that Aria DOES, IMO, have the best and most versatile staff in town, but I don't think that's why the tournament is successful. I think it comes down to structure, rake, publicity, and being the daily tournament in a room that a lot of people want to visit during their trip to Vegas. (plus they give out that sick gold coin to the winner lol)

Wow, this looks awesome. Now they need to figure out how we can do 12-tableing live.

One reason it did not work at Aria is because the game didn't run consistently and they don't have tables to spare. Having a table sit empty most of the day is a problem. Also finding the right format/stake seemed to be an issue. That room has so many different games going it's hard to keep everyone happy. When I played it at 1/3NL there always seemed to be a few higher stakes players giving it a shot but having a hard time taking it seriously.

Maybe it could work in a really big room with spare capacity.

Lastly, Tim needs to resist the urge to interfere with how people play their game. I know it's your baby but you really can't be coaching people during hands or grabbing peoples' stacks and moving them around.

No, they didn't.

Candy Crush isn't even the name of the company. You're thinking of King. As GrindPokerAllDay said, you should consult a patent attorney or even a search engine if you don't understand the first thing about patents and can't resist the urge to talk about them.

Speaking of being unable to resist. I love it when people announce a "permanent" exit only to come back later and demonstrate the lack of restraint that advised their initial decision. Poetry.

IDK something doesnt seem to make any sense. It just seems unrealistic to me that if the game was as packed with great action and gambling players that a casino would close it down becaue the dealrs feel they have to work harder. And then the answer for success is to find casinos where business is so slow that the dealers are desparate for more hours so they will agree to deal a game that other dealers hated just to get more hours?

So all the info posts stop in April 2013. Then in July 2013 Tim gives a hint about new features and says big announcement he cant talk about is coming. Then nothing again until 7 months later someone posts "is MAP dead" and Tim posts the same list of new features and again says announcement coming soon, but he cant talk about because he learned not to tell NVG anything.

Just sounds pretty much like BS. Cant talk about why Aria dropped the busiest, most fun game in the world and cant talk about what's coming, but trust me, big announcement coming soon!

I agree. I will no longer be doing that. We will have other people representing MAP. Although, I may occasionally be on hand if there are any suggestions or feedback to improve any part of the game.

I understand where you are coming from. The big announcement we had in July fell through. In business, sometimes that happens. Instead we went a different direction and when its time, we will make the announcement. I want to do things right. Learn from the experiences that we are grateful for.

For now, I hope that the next few posts to come will satisfy you.

Sincerely,
Tim Frazin

One of the new MAP tables, designed to improve player cognizance.

So this is the 10 handed version. Is it much larger than a standard 10 handed table to accommodate player comfort and viewing lines?

10 players + 2 dealers round that table. Looks tight.

Game needs dedicated dealers.

10-handed is mind-numbingly dumb. you are putting two stacks in front of each player then shoehorning 10 around a table? why? so you can reduce your take? you should play this 8- or maybe 9-handed at most. 9-handed is a stretch.

That's a snug fit.

That table is absurd.

(1) If the table is regular size then there's no way 10 players + 2 dealers can reasonably fit around it. Would be chaos when in full swing.

(2) If the table is made large enough to comfortably accommodate everyone then the dealers wouldn't be able to reach all around the table.

(3) Colour coding the table for the 2 games means that if there are less players seated they won't be able to spread to use the space effectively.

(4) It looks ugly/off-putting for noobs.

(5) Having players that close together, each with 2 stacks would cause all sorts of problems with stacks getting knocked, chips moving from one game to the other etc.

Colour coding might make it easier for everyone to focus on which game is which (particularly if you have the cards matching the same colours) but 8-handed is the maximum realistically.

I hate how slow live games are and would love to see a good solution but personally wouldn't sit at one of these tables 10 or 9-handed.

I don't see what's different about that table from the old ones other than it being 10 handed (bad change) and the new colours are ugly.

Lets first start with reiterating what we announced, "we now have a 10 player lay-out" Just to ease concerns, the 8 player lay-out is still available. We are creating more options to help the game evolve, such as:
You really need a 10 player table to run sit-n-go's and tournaments.
Adding 2 more seats allows more people to try the game.

Now for all of your legitimate concerns:

I understand, that for some/most who have never played or even seen it played live, it may appear that way. For starters, it no longer looks like a roulette table. The main difference besides the ease of colors (which is important), is that there are much less white lines such as the diamond in the middle or straight lines in front of the dealers. Removing the lines should help players follow the action even better. Also, the game worked pretty darn well, so there is no need for anything more than to tweak and make small improvements.



Lets start with this quote from you "10-handed is mind-numbingly dumb."
I disagree with that statement. I do not think sit-n-go's are dumb. I also have no problem playing 10 handed in almost every tournament I play. Also, at any nine handed table, I will always make it 10 handed for the fish. Actually, make that, people always make it 10 handed for me.
Please read further in my response to 9 handed and shoehorning


Lets go in order:
1. What is regular size? do you mean Venetian size or Commerce size? or maybe you mean Bellagio and Aria size. A standard poker table can measure 96 to 108 inches. Yes fitting 12 people on a 96' table would be tight. That is currently not in our plans except the table being made especially for Willy Wanka's employees.

2. That is not accurate. We will make sure that most dealers will be able to reach around. Obviously the ones already using contraptions to reach chips do not qualify.
3. That is correct. You are pretty much stuck in that space. I don't believe that was ever an issue in our Beta Test as that applied to 8 handed table also.
4. Sorry you feel that way. Hope most people like them better than the wsop beef jerky lay-outs. We surveyed over 25 players who actually played the game. This was the color scheme they overwhelmingly chose out of the three or more they were provided. However, we can change the colors to what ever the casinos will want them to be. This is just going to be our standard. We are always open to suggestions.
5. Actually, I disagree and think I can prove it with the following statement that will be my official response.

Please also take into consideration the following:
We made changes based on studying the game while it was played along with player, dealer, and management input.

The the very first table layout in the beta test was NINE handed, thats 9 handed. The players complained that the uneven balance made it difficult to follow the button. (it is in this thread from the players). So we changed it to 8 handed. Since 9 players fit originally, I feel confident that 10 players will fit with the modifications we have made including increasing the table to the standard 108' (venetian standard), moving the shufflers away from the dealers knees so they can reach further, and bringing in the track a couple inches so that it is just as far away 10 or 8 handed.

10 handed allows for sit-n-go's to be played. A good SNG player will now have even better EV in this format if they value their time. Also, 10 handed allows for the game to lose 4 players and still play at a good pace. It was our experience that at 4:am or anytime, when the game became 5 handed it would be to fast and the game would break. The 8 player table could only handle 2 players out.
In closing, we will make the table whatever it needs to be in order to work the best. I have always listened and acted on input from people who participated in the game. All I simply ask is for the poker community to try it open minded. Maybe you (a general you) can play it and make a suggestion that would benefit the whole poker community. I just like action and thats why I invented the game.

Sincerely
Tim Frazin



P.S. Now I am really ready for everyone to bash the Open Face Poker lay-out I am going to post. Cant wait to here why the poker stars smaller table will be better for the casino then the MAP Open Face. But I am getting ahead of myself.

Can you explain how you envision tournaments being run on this sort of table?

Sit n go's would work.

Like where you are going with this... I would play.

Me too. Solves one of the issues with live sit and go's - almost not worth the time. But now with twice as much of everything (cash + action), you go from almost not worth the time to definitely worth the time!

A note to Tim: you're taking a lot of abuse by some like a true professional. It doesn't appear that you've let some opinions, which definitely could be a minority but they're so "confident" and "authoritative" in their opinion that it could easily be misconstrued by less professional people as facts, deter you and I encourage you to hang in there like you have been so far.

I'm in NJ, so if you can get AC or PA casinos to try this, I will be there!

(I'll also be in Vegas at the end of April, so if you can have it start by then, I will definitely play!)


PS - I've readily admitted before that I am a newbie, and what most would characterize as a fish, so it's funny when people say fish would be scared off by this. I'm a fish, and trust me, I'm not scared off at all. I'm actually excited about this, and regs generally love it when I'm at a table generally for some reason.

Tim,

For a sit-n-go 10-handed is fine. Good idea imo, although it's such a squeeze and the layout discourages spreading around the table once players drop out.

For ring games, 10-handed/two games is nuts. Great that people want to play your game. Terrible to shoehorn people into a table. I am a high-stakes player, so I don't have to put up with this. I detest being jostled by players frequently. But even assuming you don't care about the business of people like me or believe we are a negligible percentage of your customers, why would you do this? You lose rake, you slow the game down, you encourage nitting which makes the game dull, and you put people into tight quarters. There is no upside to making this 10-handed. If you feel pressure to make games 10-handed, here you have an excuse: the table is laid out for 9-handed or 8-handed, and 10-handed would make people dizzy trying to figure out where to put the stacks.

You can ignore me, but I am dead on about this. Do not play this game for cash 10-handed. You will reduce your player pool and never know why.

Having played this a few times, if comfort is not an issue, 10 handed might be better for the best pace of the game. 8 or less and it felt frantic at times.