There's generally some confusion though. Higher infectability is very fast evolution that is directly selected for. There is no direct selection pressue on lethality. Human reaction aside (which can be very significant) lethality has zero impact on the fitness of a new strain until possibly long into the future i.e it aint good for the virus if it's killed all the hosts - this should offer no comfort.

As I posted about before, the far bigger impact on lethality may be the way hosts have coevolved with infections. It's unclear but it may that we have evolved to allow escape of infections as part of the defense against lethality.

Most encouraging of all is the mega success of the vaccines. Tweaking them to new variants is relatively easy. Plus treatments are gradually getting on top of viruses - still a long way to go but science will win this one too.

Bolded is not true and that is why it has not been done yet.

It takes time and there is no guarantee by the time you have done it the variant you have tweaked for is the dominant variant.

C19 has thrown virologists a curve ball because Omicron is a completely different lineage to Alpha and Delta, which normally just does not happen. Its mutated in very different way, where as Delta was an evolution of Alpha. Any vaccine tweaked for Alpha or Delta would bestow no advantages against Omicron.

The idea of tweaking for variants has been pretty much abandoned, though there is a small amount of work going on in that regard, now the main drive is to develop broad spectrum vacinees that might anticipate and be adaptable to a wide range of possible mutations.

do you literally have no concept of dying "with" Covid" than "of Covid"?

Jesus Christ

but whatever, get boosted (again and agian), mask up, and clutch those pearls

and most importantly.......shame others

"Collectively" will the challenging word there.

Most people are prepared to decide the risk for themselves but as we have a very large percent of very old and obese individuals who are surviving with so many comorbidities, that in yesteryear or less developed nations would have taken their life long before.

Nature has always had a way of targeting the vulnerable in the herd and Covid is the virus that is coming for them. And that then leads to 'them' wanting everyone to Vax up to the max to protect them. Understandable from their perspective. A little more challenging when you say that to 'others' when it comes to never ending Med's.






Hospital capacity will always be key. If hospital systems risk breaking again, then measures will be taken.

Of course it's true. The reason it hasn't been done is that the original vaccines are extremely effective.

Evolutionarily speaking there is nothing remotely odd or new about different lineages. We should also expect recombining of different lineages which can be particualrly dangerous. What is iextraordinary is watching a novel pandemic evolve - the ablity to see it happen in real time is what is extraordinary

Give us the numbers.

Sounds like shaming.

Ah, there we go.

Again this just isnt true and the science is unequivocal.

Its not normal for variants to come from a completely new lineage, its of course normal for variants to be a mutation/evolution of the dominant strain.

If a given strain say Delta is present in the vast majority of people with covid the expected thing is for the next variant to be a mutated copy of Delta.

Omicron is very very very different to Delta (and Beta, Gamma, Alpha) and its not remotely normal to have a variant not come from the dominant strain at the time and be so different.

Its true what you say about recombining because again that is a process derived from the dominant strain, dominant strain being the key feature in how viruses normally evolve for reasons that should not need explaining. Its a numbers game.



The virus has been behaving more normally recently which is why each new variant is a numeral of Omicron.

Also the vaccines are doing a poor job now of protecting against infection, especially when considering many people have already had 3 or even 4 shots.

Severe disease yes, infection no.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01771-3

Of course it's normal. This is still evolution 101

As for realtively easy. Here's some idiots on the topic:

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk...sting-vaccines

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55917793


https://www.theguardian.com/society/...days-if-needed



...

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02854-3

I could go on forever but it's ridiculous. This is not in dispute. Tweaking the vaccines is relatively easy.

Evolution 101 has the child inheriting most of the characteristics of the parent with a vary slight competitive advantage.

This did not happen with Omicron.

Alpha, Beta, Delta and Gamma are all fairly similar because they are variations on theme of the dominant strain.

Omicron did not come from Delta the dominant strain at the time and this is highly unusual and unlikely simply due to the numbers, being the dominant strain you are of course creating many more copies of yourself at any given time so therefor are the most likely to create the next variant as a mutated copy.

Its a numbers game and why should be obvious.

This did not happen.

As to the above quote from National Geographic, its completely moot, the point is that you can insert genetic code into new vaccines, but even with it being relatively quick compared to other vaccines, its still not quick enough to keep up with the emergence of new variants.

So for example if we had made a new vaccine for Delta, it would have been pointless by the time it came online because Omicron.

Which is why Scientists no longer consider updating vaccines with new genetic code the optimum strategy for new vaccines.

This is not conjecture. You are just objectively wrong.

And as soon as we have two variants from omicron but from different linagaes then that will be normal and unsuprsiing too. I'd assume it hasn't already happened.

Indeed. I'm talkign about serious illness. The ship has long sailed on protection from infection - if there ever was such a ship once th cat was out of the bag.

Haha a link to when Matt Hancock was still Health Secretary about a new vaccine ready for the Autumn.

Which would have been Oct 21, because that link is from Feb 21.

Did not happen.

So your first link is absolutely washoe.

Second link, 100 days, again to slow.

None of those links counter the problem of variants evolving to quickly.

but it doesn't in anyway expect all the grandchildren to be from the same parents

It's nonsesne

Okay. I'll post soem more of the bleedin obvious for you. Feel free to be sensible anytime
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-b2109333.html

You expect the last child to have some relation to its parent.

So Omicron might have wondered down the genetic path from the original strain, that is to be of course expected, but for it to be so so so different to the last step on the genetic path is not at all normal.

Omicron is not any recombination of Delta or mix of Delta with other variant, its completely out there as a set of mutations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/a...-b1798836.html

Why do you keep doing this?

Again I repeat its not that you cant tweak a vaccine, its that you dont want to, because by the time you do, hello new variant.

You are missing the point and supplying arguments that dont counter the problem.

Hahaha you did it again.

This is from Febuary 2021, did we have a new vaccine in Autumn 2021

No.

? They do. Otherwise it wpuldn't be cocid anymore (among otehr things)

Some peopel are gobsmacked by very basic evolution but it's still massively more the same than different. And it's not close

Because the old ones still work very effectively hahahhaa. It is amusing how effective they are.

It so weird arguing with you sometimes. Fortunately what really matters is if a new deadly strain emerges than tweaking the vaccine will be realtively simple. The experts are telling you this
as clear as day.

The point you are missing.

Its winter.

Scientist: We can have new vaccine by Autumn.

Autumn is too long, because by Autumn, we will have a new variant.

That link supports my argument not yours.

If you want to roll out edited vaccines waiting from Winter to Autumn is far too long.

Omicron did not come from Delta copying itself and mutating, this is known fact.

So again this is highly unusual because its fully expected for any new strain to be mutated copy of the dominant strain simply due to the numbers involved.

Well let's not argue about undisputed known facts

the rest is just beyond ridiulous.

Experts: We can do Version B relatively easy
Version A still works very effectively
We stick with version A

This somehow prove Oafk is correct and all the experts are wrong. Maybe Gove was right after all. We dont need no experts.