Given we have a safe and approved vaccine, why accept anything >0?

we are open now. it is indeed ripping.

problem is that we have no idea how long natural immunity lasts. seems that we are at the stage where lots of people are getting their 2nd case of it like the LA dude Clay Higgins.

another problem is we dont know how bad the variants are gonna get. Delta is obv way more contagious and dangerous.

but what choice is there? at this point people just gotta do what is best for themselves. theres a vaccine that almost always mitigates severe effects drastically. its still gonna suck to get Covid and feel like **** for a like a week or longer and lose smell and all that. but you wont die or get long term effects. hope it stays that way. and its also gonna suck to get boosters every 6 months that knock you out of a few days.

So we are mandating vaccines to save lives

Imagine if we did that with Organ donations?

Lots of stuff is mandated to save lives or prevent serious harm to an individual. Probably one of the most common reasons why things get mandated.

Doing something that can harm others is not the same as not doing something that can help others.

Sick burn.

Actually the best strategy of all is to get the vaccine yourself, get Covid, then spend the rest of your time denouncing the vaccine. You will have survived but you'll get to make some money off the deaths of others. See News, Fox. Or also lagtight I guess but without the making money part.

Great plan except for the 50 million kids in the US under the age of 12. **** em I guess.

If you feel that way fine, but my point is society has shown to do better dealing with the virus in the temperate summer months as opposed to the more severe winter months.

Already we have many doctors forecasting this could be a winter of horrid convergence as both Covid and the Flu peak.

So not sure how your 12 and under are any more protected in your scenario??

My 12 and unders need to make it like maybe 6 more weeks before they can get the vaccine.

If there is indeed a good chance that will be approved, then sure hold off a bit. Not that letting it rip now would change much in that time frame.

But if that is not approved, I maintain your 12 and unders will be in far more danger come this winter, if the bulk of this new wave hits in the middle of winter and especially if it coincides with a flu wave.

A big flu wave can, on its own be a strain on resources. Imagine hospitals with the same # of Flu people (as none of the covid vax'd will have extra protection from the flu) alongside the type of covid waves we have been having.

I foresee very dire times ahead if that ends up being the case. Something that looks like first wave Italy and NYC ugly if we have two many unvax'd who have not got covid yet and thus have no natural immunity.

Just in case you see Ben Shapiro's rant on Fox against Biden and mandates.






Oops, those screen caps were his prior position when it was the Hollywood Lib fighting against forced vaccinations that he felt could impact his kids in school.

Good one if true cuepee

Most liberals are etremely way of mandating vaccines. If we do support it, it's usually because of a crises situation rather than an ev calculation. i.e we wont support mandates to save some number of lives but we might consider it to prevent the collapse of healthcare systems.

Not totally certain what your blood transfusion point was but I also suspect we're in omission vs commission territory. Sympathy for the unvaxed can be eroded because they will kill oithers rather than because they wont save others.

Okay. But when we get out of the time machine will you at least distract patient zero while I do the jab?

Not that we'd actually have to go through all that. I'm thinking every human being would willingly take the shot given the foreknowledge they are patient zero (including the actual patient zero).

You have clearly not been paying very close attention for the last 18 months.

I'm grunching in this thread but wanted to give you guys a list of reasons I never intend to take the covid vaccine or any other other product offered by a big pharmaceutical company:

1. I don't trust a government monopoly regulator when private companies are capable of influencing such a regulator through political contributions.

2. I don't trust people who would silence or attempt to silence viewpoints that differ from their own and I feel like many who have supported the covid vaccines and general covid hysteria have supported such silencing, including mainstream media and social media companies.

3. I don't trust people emotionally invested in a subject to the absolute detriment of every other cause that is important in society. Government response to the covid crisis has cost $6 trillion, which happens to be enough money to plant 6 million trees through onetreeplanted.org. The current world population of trees is approximately 3 trillion, meaning the world's population of trees could have been tripled, likely reversing global warming. Instead, the money has been funneled to fight a disease that has killed less than 1/1,000 of the global population. "Science".

4. I don't trust an academic/scientific community in general because in the fields where I have done the greatest amount of studying (economics and psychology), I find the conclusions of the "experts" and the government policies that have resulted from listening to the "experts" to be way off base. I believe we will experience a complete collapse of our financial system, economy and currency as a result of our living above our means through credit while destroying productive capacity through bad economic policy for decades. I also believe that all humans are capable of the use of reason and have the capacity to be empathetic as well as compassionate, in contrast with mainstream psychology that seeks not to discover the humanity within people but to characterize the ways in which they are subhuman.

5. I don't really care that much if I do die because I'm thoroughly convinced that not only am I going to a better place when I die, but that I had the option to travel to such a place during a near-death experience a few years ago and that the only reason I chose to remain here is out of service to the rest of my species.

6. I have formed a social community of other like-minded people and their admiration and respect is worth more to me than that of the pro-vax crowd.

If I dug deeper, I could probably come up with more reasons but I feel like this is sufficient to make my point.

While we will disagree about the effectiveness of vaccines, I believe there is one point upon which we may find agreement:

People like me will not choose to vaccinate regardless of what intellectual or emotional appeals you make because we not only believe ourselves to be correct, but also are emotionally invested in being correct.

Instead of wasting your energy attempting to do something which is outside your sphere of influence (convincing us to vaccinate) and doing something foolish like attempting to back people into corners where they feel like they have no choice but to protect themselves from the physical threat they perceive, I suggest accepting the reality that exists and coming to terms with it.

For me, the thing that has helped me the most with accepting circumstances that I wish were different has been developing a relationship with God. Different people have different conceptions of God and I don't think it matters so much what your particular conception is. What I think matters is that individuals acknowledge their own powerless where it exists and become convinced that even if the things they desire are unreachable through their own action, perhaps there is a greater intelligence in this universe that will someday satisfy them, once they have gained the requisite knowledge and done the necessary work in order to become happy.

Or, I mean, you could keep banging your heads against the wall in a futile endeavor, inciting other people and contributing to the overall suffering that exists in this world.

That's a lot of words. Don't care if you die-I suggest driving with your eyes closed to really put that to the test

I love these vaccine truthers going on and on abt how much people care if they get vaccinated. Obv I can't speak for anybody else but I couldn't care less. If you are of a certain age then it's your funeral. I say you continue to surround yourself with like minded people bc echo chambers are the best way to go!

I already explained I am here to be of service. I'm not going to just give up that mission because I want to hurry my journey to paradise along. A human lifetime is nothing against the spectrum of eternity.

Regarding the echo chamber, I'm voluntarily entering a discussion in a forum that I'm sure is full of people who see things differently. I'm open to new ideas, I just don't experience anyone refuting any of the points I made as far as my reasoning. It's much more typical to encounter people who make claims with nothing substantiating them who then get angry and insult/block/dismiss/attempt to silence me.

I'm honestly fine. I had covid last november (according to the test which was probably bullshit) and that offers me much better protection than the vaccine would. Not to mention, I have been interacting with people the entire "pandemic" and thus have less to worry about with regard to immunity debt against disease in general, as compared with someone who's been living in a bubble this entire time.

https://www.science.org/content/arti...-remains-vital

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...66991921001123

Serously!

So nothing for a headache. Nothing if you get cancer. Nothing if you get high blood pressure, Nothing if you're told you need an operation? Seriously nothing from modern medicine at all?

Have to admire it. Do you feel the same about big energy companies?

I'm pro choice btw so you do you. If you've had it then you should be good and in a better position than the average vaccinated zombie. I live a life that requires vaccination after October, and maybe that should bother me but it doesn't

My truther friends and people here really feel they're fighting the good fight and are digging in and sticking to their guns. Good for you! I just think it's amusing with all that the government and corporations do to choose this as the final straw

That smart phone in your pocket is very likely frying your balls, and unless you're on a whole foods diet you're getting wrecked there too. The money you pay your insurance company is being invested by them in ways that would likely make your skin crawl. Like it really goes on and on. But this right here is where you all say no more

There is no doubt. And I think that extends far beyond "people like me"; it's a feature of the human condition. This is really the reason why "debate" is a complete fool's errand. Mental masturbation.

We cannot trust any member of this semi-evolved primate species called human beings to make rational short- and long-term decisions on its own behalf OR ESPECIALLY on the behalf of groups of others it will never meet. This is why we need robust federal government entities and a strong safety net -- to protect us from ourselves.

This extends to vaccines. Institute an actual vaccine mandate and public health instantly improves. Levy fines on the non-compliers. Do this in February and this thing would have been done and dusted. Plus we would have gotten fun videos of DONT TREAD ON ME rednecks freaking out about the govament thugs taking their freedoms.

*my underline

I think this is a sad and dangerous worldview. Such a thing can (and historically HAS) led to untold suffering on this planet. "Deprive yourself of Earthly delights, work my fields, and find your salvation in the next life!" That's an only slightly exaggerated extension of this philosophy.

No. Life is material. There are those who hoard land, money, and various other resources, and if we can take it from them and spread it to those without, we can create a better world HERE.

And I'm definitely never going to accept any ideology that depends upon a deity or deities, particularly the genocidal Abrahamic God AKA The Adult Santa Claus.

Energy is different, it’s not putting something in my body.

There are medications available that are not produced by these companies.

There are other things I’ve done to mitigate other risks posed by government policies but yes, it’s never possible to mitigate all risks and there is a significant amount of risk that is inescapable in this unstable structure.

I appreciate that you’re in the live and let live camp and was directing my commentary more towards those who aren’t.