lol...u went as far as to search the entire internet for my twoplustwo screenname...lol

if youre speaking of my cereus account then yes i only have 675 games played and ive only made $3400...not amazing numbers but i still have a 47% ROI there and a $5 ave profit. if you think Cereus (where it takes 3 hours to fill a omaha H/L SnG) is where i play youre sadly mistaken. Keep searching bud!! i play on Stars, Fulltilt, and Cake.

Wager that DoN's are gone by march 2 2011? He only gve to the end of the month for people chasing monthly rewards/status.

No I took 5 seconds and looked at your posting history on 2+2...you're wrong almost every time you open your mouth.

Lol, did you read Forbes and how much stars makes? Assuming people don't jump to other games, whatever tiny amount they lose will be a drop in the bucket.

Some advice, dont put $ on cake. Terrible traffic and read the cashout thread.

Steve,


I can understand that collusion was a big problem in the DoNs, and that Stars had to do something about it. But i'm not sure the Fifty50s accomplish that goal. See, i'd like to introduce you to two players from the lovely eastern European country of Moldova: eduAArdo1369 and Artemio_21. They are both new to the game, according to Sharkscope eduAArdo1369 has played 185 Sit'n'Gos on Stars, and Artemio_21 has played 53. They seem to play various formats, and to my limited knowedge a Fifty50 earlier today (Tournament #365772569) was the first time they played in the same tournament.

In the tournament, eduAArdo1369 was very active (48/15/2.8), and Artemio_21 (47/20/2) also played a lot of hands. With two players like these, it should be only a matter of time until they clash, right? Here's the clash:

Poker Stars $1.00+$0.08 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t125/t250 Blinds + t30 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BTN: t3545 M = 5.76
Artemio_21: t670 M = 1.09
Hero (BB): t2480 M = 4.03
UTG: t685 M = 1.11
UTG+1: t1215 M = 1.98
MP1: t840 M = 1.37
MP2: t2065 M = 3.36
eduAArdo1369: t3500 M = 5.69

Pre Flop: (t615) Hero is BB with 9 T
4 folds, eduAArdo1369 raises to t500, 1 fold, Artemio_21 raises to t640 all in, 2 folds


So eduAArdo raises to just under Artemio's stack, gets shoved on, and folds. A minute later, this hand:

Poker Stars $1.00+$0.08 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds + t40 - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

SB: t3085 M = 4.47
Artemio_21: t750 M = 1.09
Hero (UTG): t2635 M = 3.82
MP: t1640 M = 2.38
CO: t4200 M = 6.09
eduAArdo1369: t2690 M = 3.90

Pre Flop: (t690) Hero is UTG with 6 T
3 folds, eduAArdo1369 raises to t600, 1 fold, Artemio_21 raises to t710 all in, 1 fold

Again a raise to just under Artemio's stack, a shove and a fold. A few hands later, Artemio returns the favor:


Poker Stars $1.00+$0.08 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t50 - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BB: t2435 M = 2.71
Artemio_21: t2230 M = 2.48
Hero (MP): t1835 M = 2.04
CO: t1680 M = 1.87
BTN: t5530 M = 6.14
eduAArdo1369: t1290 M = 1.43

Pre Flop: (t900) Hero is MP with 8 4
Artemio_21 raises to t800, 3 folds, eduAArdo1369 raises to t1240 all in, 2 folds


So i decided to look them up.


Poker Stars $1.00+$0.08 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t50 - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BTN: t1735 M = 1.93
Artemio_21: t930 M = 1.03
Hero (BB): t1735 M = 1.93
UTG: t1580 M = 1.76
MP: t6330 M = 7.03
eduAArdo1369: t2690 M = 2.99

Pre Flop: (t900) Hero is BB with K J
2 folds, eduAArdo1369 raises to t800, 1 fold, Artemio_21 raises to t880 all in, Hero raises to t1685 all in, eduAArdo1369 calls t885

Flop: (t4550) J T 7 (3 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t4550) 9 (3 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t4550) 6 (3 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t4550
Artemio_21 shows 7 8 (a straight, Seven to Jack)
Hero shows K J (a pair of Jacks)
eduAArdo1369 shows J 8 (a straight, Seven to Jack)
eduAArdo1369 wins t1610
Artemio_21 wins t1470



These were the only 3-bets these players made in the whole tournament. Blatant chipdumping, imo.

These guys are not professional cheaters. They are not very good at colluding, heck, they're not even from China. They're just two noobs from Eastern Europe who start playing Sit'n'Gos on Stars, and the very first thing they discover is how to cheat.

That's exactly the problem the Fifty50s were supposed to solve. They don't.

+1

since my other topic been closed I wish steve could explain to me how those 3 guys from the same country started winning massive at highstakes dons this year after being bad regulars in the past. and btw, they are HORRIBLE.




plz dont insult my inteligence when I see those kind of thing and play those games everyday and can tell exactly wich kind of player can be winning ones and those who obv are colluding/doing somethind shady.. I have more tons of screens like this, and even some other ones that I found and PS only give me back my buyin.

Training sites obv.

If you have specific evidence or suspicion of collusion, please send in information about the players and tournament IDs to support@pokerstars.com. PokerStars investigates each and every report of suspicious activity.

+1. Keep DON pls. I am not going to play your fifty50's (no traffic, no pt to even talk about it). Let us have DON as an option. It's by far your MOST POPULAR FORMAT! =P

So if I email support saying that I think PokerStars Steve AND kidpoker are colluding against me having DON'S they'll investigate it? Kewl

These are very typical charts for a don player who gets the format. they actually are slightly worse than a good regular but definitely in the range of being skilled at understanding the format. There is nothing shady about those charts. They are very Standard winning don player charts.

I don't like posting my own stuff cause there is no need for me to divulge my stats (they are in fact impressive and would turn heads). If you think those charts are of cheaters than I guess you would think I am a colluder also and I am not. I spent many sessions zoning into the way to play the structure correctly. It took me over a year of parttime playing to get to a really good level. Then, I reached a point where I was consistently able to multi 35 non-turbo dons while making quick decisions with an avg itm around 60% (My only major bankroll swing if u even wanna call it major, lol, was 19 buy-ins which is amazing when compared with heads up which I used to play where you would go thru 100 or more buyin swings). Unfortunately you would go through a few break-even streaks but that is the nature of these.

I would like you to take notice of how these alleged cheaters above went through break-even streaks earlier in their charts. They were learning. The break-even at the beginning is the sign of a player who will most likley become a profitable one once they fully comprehend the structure.

OK, done.

PM me if u want me to give you a top ten list of ways i feel these 50/50s can be manipulated. I don't want to give the colluders any ideas but it's a joke when they say these disallow as much collusion as don's. I would NEVER collude (have been asked by ppl before and turned them down). I love the game of poker too much to take that approach to it. BUT, i have a mental list of multiple colluding strategies that lead to way more inm profits than don's since there is more in pot odds to rob from ppl. You see, with the tactics i thought up (again, id never do them), all u need to do is cash a small amount of times since the payouts are way more each winning time than don's. Now, the colluders can be even more undetectable since they don't have to go crazy multitabling and bring more attention or become known .

Each hand that is colluded is amplified by the payouts...they don't need to work the tables as hard now. Again, PM for my list. It's really sad if stars did not think about any of these strategies. Think about it, the chinese colluders for example, often finished with huge chips stacks (not the avg. 1250-1650 that the honest winning regs usually finished with). Now, do the math, if u finish with huge stacks (1st or 2nd place usually) in the 50's ur payouts will be tremendous over time compared with the don's that only pay less than 2 to 1. These are way more "colludable" as far as profit than don's. They are even worse than ring games cause you can't leave. Couple all those factors, and these will be much, much more profitable for cheaters cause now they're getting paid more than 2 to 1 for their efforts. This structure will pay them dividends when compared with dons.

If your chips or finishing spot or BOTH correspond to equity, I'm not sure there's any EXTRA benefit to colluding than there is in any other game. Any game can be cheated by colluding if it goes undetected. The problem with DON's is that it is moreso difficult to detect AND moreso advantageous to do so compared to the other games. There really isn't as much benefit to collude in a Fifty/50 because you have an incentive to get more chips because those translate to REAL equity. In DON's, just having a CHIP translates to equity. The incentive to accumulate chips in Fifty/50's outweighs the incentive to have a teammate in the game because when you pass up opportunities to get chips, you're letting go of REAL equity. That's not the case in DON's where ONLY surviving matters.

So, can Fifty/50's be colluded? Yes, just like any other game. Are they MORE prone to be colluded than DON's? Obviously not.

uhhh, u are sooooo dead wrong on this. please read my above explanation.

Are they LESS prone to be colluded than DON's?

I think they are just as likely but u can be more successful. The same number of ppl who collude exists as did before they were introduced. These colluders need to be successful a smaller percent of the time as they were with dons and will end up making the same money because of the payouts (chip value being more than with don's as far as what u cheat ppl for). These are a colluders fantasyland. The don's may have been like atm's (20 here, 20 there) but THESE 50's are like rigged slot machines (put 21.20 in and get 80-100 out unlike the 40 they would have been only able to get from dons for the same 20 dollar buyin). So, that 80-100 covers their buyins for more of them and if they lose it's only profit they lost. These sngs are deplorable.

I think they are just as likely as with don's but u can be more successful. The same number of ppl who collude exists as did before they were introduced. These colluders need to be successful a smaller percent of the time as they were with dons and will end up making the same money because of the payouts (chip value being more than with don's as far as what u cheat ppl for). These are a colluders fantasyland. The don's may have been like atm's (20 here, 20 there) but THESE 50's are like rigged slot machines (put 21.20 in and get 80-100 out unlike the 40 they would have been only able to get from dons for the same 20 dollar buyin). So, that 80-100 covers their buyins for more of them and if they lose it's only profit they lost.

They will be able to prey on ppl who are trying to survive to get their buy in back unlike in regular 9 man where it's always worth it to take a stand since 4th and 5th don't pay (such as calling an all in from a bully colluder (who has u covered) when u have two nines and are likely flipping at best etc). The same element of the colluders preying on the ppl trying to survive still exisits. People will still be scared to take a stand if they believe they have no chance of placing above 4th or 5th. These players will have thier heart set on surviving and therefore will be vulnerable to colluders the same way as in don's. This format is deplorable.

Sean is it true you are upset that the DON format is leaving PokerStars?

Maybe you'd like to share your thoughts and opinions?

I agree with the first statement, and maybe with the second, too.

If SNG-Wizard is right that you can treat the equity in a Fifty50 as a simple sum of two terms:

1. survival equity, just as in DONs
2. chip equity, linear to your stacksize,

then you can calculate the EV of chipdumping as the sum of these two terms, too. Now for a team, the second term must be =0, since chip equity is linear, so every chip dumped by the bigstack decreases his equity by the same amount it increases the shortstack's. That leaves the first term, which is the same as before, only half as big.

So, for a team, the incentive to cheat is half as big, but the incentive not to cheat is still zero.

lol.

What's the over/under for how much seanysean will tilt away on stars before Feb. 28th?

THANK YOU! At least one person gets what I'm saying. These are much more profitable to cheat at. In dons the payour structure is like a straight jacket. You are confined to winning less than 2 to 1. In these, one can win up to around 5 to 1 if they kill the table.