If only there was a poker site out there that did this already, then everyone could have fun the way they wanted without having to piss on anyone else...

Posting that kind of reply on a message board is like walking into a McDonalds and screaming at all the other customers that you're pissed they don't sell Whoppers and they shouldn't be allowed to buy Big Macs, meanwhile, there's a Burger King right across the street.

Wow!!! It's almost December and still no announcement from stars... So much for stars wanting to promote a skill based game.

Nanonoko plays exclusively 40bb and higher games.


He has played over 4 mirrion hands, won almost $1.7 mirrion with a winrate almost 3bb/100.


Leatherass is another deep stack long term winner over huge amount of hands on Stars and Tilt.

"I like chess, therefore, checkers is not a skill based game."

True/false?

Yes, just don't call your checkers chess.

20 bb <> nl period

The games are clearly labeled as to what they are.

Imagine the following games:

Fixed Limit Hold'em with each player having 20-50BB to start
Pot Limit Hold'em with each player having 20-50BB to start
No Limit Hold'em with each player having 20-50BB to start

Clearly, each plays very differently.

So, given that the game on stars in question, is in fact "No Limit Hold'em with each player having 20-50BB to start," what do you suggest it be called?

"Super awesome card/poker game that plays just like 'No Limit Hold'em with each player having 20-50BB to start' except that deeper stack players think you're too stupid to read so we don't call it NLHE" isn't too catchy.

You waste a lot of words.

20bb poker isn't nl

It's more spread limit than anything else.

i love how the ssers are over these threads..
and yet they need more than double the votes to catch up..

With that logic just about any game played on the Internet isn't NL.

Pretty much everything we play on a day to day basis is capped. . . .

O RLY?

You might want to get your facts straight before holding Leatherass up as a paragon of deep stack cash play who doesn't hit and run.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...ackers-567121/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=181


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...ackers-567121/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...1&postcount=21

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...78/index3.html


Eto needs 150 hands before his computer can tell him what to do and you don't like the 20bb buy in even though your hit and running shortstacking hero does it.

Anyone with a well thought out case, backed by actual facts, to be made against these tables? The ones that Stars does not force you to play at?

Yes, because if less than 51% of any given sample, no matter how biased, votes against something, it should definitely be removed.

Yeah, because when I buy in for 50BB, the game plays exactly like spread limit.

Why you telling stories?... he didn't say any of those things. It's nearly impossible to remove all bias, but the largest poker forum can't be that bad of a place for a general poll. And, if the poll results were reversed, I highly doubt you'd be pulling out the 'biased' card, but instead, would likely be writing about how the poll shows the popularity of 20-50bb games blah blah.

And his point was valid, SSers swarm these threads as they do the tables.... like roaches. I'm quite sure a much higher % of roaches....err I mean SSers are bothering to vote on this poll then fullstackers, which is common sense because they feel threatened by our can of Raid (which is 20% larger for a limited time btw). Yet, the poll still clearly shows that the majority of players are not happy with all the various abuse going on at the 20-50bb tables and would like to see Stars enact more appropriate alternatives.

[ ] standard buyin is 50BB

Tons of people enjoy the shortstack tables (for some reason???) Stars is not ever going to drop them in that situation.

Most shortstackers in this thread either outright lie or spew insults. Some do both. I wouldn't be surprised if some create dummy accounts to skew the results of the poll. Besides all of their efforts the facts remain the same. The poll shows clearly that the majority of people don't like what goes on at the 20-50BB tables and would like to see some changes.

PS Steve already stated 20bb poker is not going away. This poll is a waste of time. Players have 3 MAIN choices here.

1. Wait for PS annoucement of changes in VIP club for 2011.

2. Play on another site.

3. Adjust your game for current conditions.

fyp

This is fair enough, but it's also common sense that if you play NLHE and don't SS then it is in your own personal best interest to have the 20-50bb tables not exist. So the poll question only really shows, if anything, how many respondents do or do not like to buy in short.

At the end of the day that information would seem much less relevant to what Stars should do than the actual buy-in preferences of the Stars player base at large (info which only Stars knows in detail, of course, although I think we can probably make pretty good educated guesses once they announce their plans for 2011).

His point: this poll shows 2:1 favorite in favor of removing these tables, therefore, the tables should be removed.

My points: 2:1 favorite in this poll hardly represents 2:1 favorite in the poker population as a whole, and even if it did, it's not a reason to get rid of the tables.


I can try it again in even simpler words if you want, but I fear the next step down is cave drawings.

I'd love to see number of hands played at 20-50BB tables vs. full stacked tables.

I

FYP.

Don't you guys ever tire of this?

There are a lot of full-stackers playing in the 20-50bb games because that is where the fish are right now. It does not mean they prefer those games.

For sure, that's why it's not as simple as just counting up total number of each table. Just like it's not as simple as a poll on 2+2.

Incorrect. He said SSers are all over these threads, and yet they are losing 2:1 in the poll. He didn't say whether he feels 51%, or 70%, or 99%, etc was enough to remove the tables, so his thoughts are unknown at this point. Your trying to create a relationship, where none exists yet. So maybe you could stop putting words in other peoples mouths, and let them say it for themselves?

Possibly, but I doubt it is far off. This is the biggest online poker forum, and I think Stars is aware 20-50bb is a widely disliked format by now. And, if the poll does in fact represent the population, I think it is a good reason to get rid of the tables. Stars spreads the tables for the players, and making unpopular decisions against the majority is not a wise decision. Also, removing 20-50bb does not mean there aren't alternative structures like 20bb CAP that could be considered if Stars feels they must spread a 20bb game.

If your saying this, because your implying hands played = popularity, then this too is flawed reasoning. There is no correlation of hands played, and popularity. As has been said, a lot of fullstackers play 20-50, because more fish are there, which then makes 20-50bb wider spread. Then even more players feel they have to play 20-50bb, even if they dislike the format. Also, many recreational players go to the first open seats, which should favor 20-50bb as well, due to ratholing.

If you would like me to help improve your logical reasoning, then I would consider teaching you in a cave for the right price. Let me know if your interested.

No. There are lots of players playing in those games because many fewer people like to start 100bb games (prob bc of variance) than shortstack games(where you aren't at as big a disadvantage starting games). Also, shortstackers play many more tables than fullstackers so they sit and keep many more short tables going. Hence, there are many more 20-50bb games and when someone is looking to play 10, they sometimes have to play in the 20-50bb games even if they dont want to.