Lol at 'the fairest solution', that's hillarious, though you might even have conviced yourself that's true, who knows. The fairest thing in the complainers eyes is whatever will drive the fish towards their tables, fact.

If stars does make cap tables and the fish decide they're going to play them then the same ppl will keep complaining. Last time the majority of people were pleased when the new buyin structure was announced until they realised that the fish liked the short tables.

The 20bb game is a legitimate form of poker which has a player pool made up of winning regs, losing regs, and fish, just the same as the 40-100bb game. You don't have the right to demand people play your game, if there were no fish at all in the cash game player pool would you campaign for Sngs to be removed?

All of the complainers arguements are just nonsense at this stage.

1 reason why i dont play there

As stated previously, I'm 100% fine with 20BB cap games. Partially because I find them interesting, and partially because when stars started them, they were soft as hell.

So, when stars removes the 20-50BB tables and replaces them with 20BB CAP games, and everyone at the 20-50 game moves over to 20BB cap and nothing changes at 40-100 or 100-250, will you then be happy? Why does this solution make you happy when the results don't impact you in any way?

It still amazes me that players are asking a poker site to solve a perceived problem. Players can solve this problem themselves. There is a counter strategy to every strategy out there. SMH

drop ldo, die shortdonkers etc

If Stars gets rid of 20-50BB and replaces them with 20BB CAP and moves the CAP tables into a separate tab and labels it so that most fish understand what they are playing then that will be enough. If they do that and all the fish move to 20BB CAP then I won't like it but I won't complain either. The situation now is that fish don't know that they are playing some bastardised form of 20BB CAP not NLHE

Another false statement. Shortstacks have an inherent advantage against fullstack players since it is more profitable for fullstack players to play optimaly against other fullstack players and ignore the shortstack. If you think you don't have an inherent advantadge then why do you constantly rathole? I see no reason to rathole if it does not give you an advantage.

Do you have any idea how many people said the same thing when they asked pokerstars to make shallow tables? Point being that nobody expected them to be popular.

I believe if pokerstars make CAP tables they will continue to be popular if they are presented as an equal option and not hidden away on some tab like you suggest. But that is why you want them hidden away of course

incorrect nobody asked for 20-50bb tables.

I will say it again. Nobody asked for these changes.
Limit holdem has its own tab and CAP has about as much in common with NL holdem as limit does. Therefore CAP should get it's own tab as well. It doesn't mean you hide a game. It simply means that you try to make sure that people understand that the game they play is not NL holdem. If we mix CAP with NL holdem we should get rid of the fixed limit tab as well and mix all three together. That would only be fair.

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What complete rubbish.

From the individual player's the whole point of a NL cash game (or any other real money poker) is to try to win money. Pretending otherwise is idiotic.

The four betting rounds are merely part of the framework of the game, and yes they do make the game more complex when all four streets are played with a deep stack. But they aren't essential to complete a hand.

Would you fold AA if someone openshoved 100bb preflop, because you're not playing all four streets and therefore it's not poker? No? I thought not. But why? Surely you're there for the love of the beautiful game; surely it's not about the grubby lucre.

An undoubted purist such as yourself should spurn such a simplistic spot in favour of the opportunity to play JTs oop in a pot where you've been 3bet pre and are 100bb deep.


As long as the fish don't notice (which they won't) and the sites' advertising ensures a steady stream of new fish who won't notice the difference either (which it will) then I can't really foresee a point when the fish will go away, absent of a seismic shift in the global legality and financial accessibility of online poker sites. The fish see cards in the same order as they see on the tv, or the same as they saw last time they played, and therefore, to them, it's poker, and they want to gamble.

Therefore it's up to the "pro" (or however you categorise yourself) to play where the opportunity presents itself to make the most money for himself. The opportunity you get may not be quite as ideal as the one you would have in your own version of a perfect world, but hey, life isn't perfect, so just deal with it.

stat use fail

the poll results show that the majority of 2p2ers, who are about the most anti-shortstacking people on the web, are against the games, but that even 30% of a very biased selected group are ok with the games. In reality, that means the portion that are ok with the games is likely 40%+ of the overall player pool. Trampling that group's preferred game would be silly. We don't go through life with the majority dictating to everyone else. Need over 90% to show that there is a clear mandate to get rid of the games.

The poll itt shows how silly it would be to get rid of the games.

A lot of people asked for 20-40 or 20-35 games.

Also, good luck getting Stars to replace a popular game type (20-50) with an unpopular game type (cap).

Finally, I would like to ask Stars to keep the big bet draw games at 20-100. You need to allow a wide buyin range because there is typically only one or two games per level. People who wanted to buyin outside of a narrow range at the one running table couldn't.

You sound like the person who would screw over your best friend in order to make a buck. Yes the point of poker is to make money but as in society there are certain rules (some written some not) that should be followed while doing that.
No they are not essential to complete a single hand but they will occur fairly often. The problem with shortstacking is that there basically can never be 4 streets of betting. That is what makes a 20BB CAP game different from NL cash and it's a big difference.

This is just silly. It's not about the love of the game it's about making sure that everybody understands and plays by the same rules. Right now shortstacks play 20BB CAP while all the fish play half-stack NL holdem. This is what is called angle shooting.


So basically you want to deceive fish into thinking that they are playing NL holdem cash while they actually play 20BB CAP and in doing so giving you an unfair advantage.
Hey why not tweak the odds slightly in favor of the regs. The fish will simply see cards fall and think they are playing poker while we make more money.

Correct, there was very little mention of CAP games the last time this issue was discussed. People just assumed that shallow games would be unpopular because thats what happened to the shallow games at fulltilt.

Yes they did. They also asked them to be labeled shallow. IMO they should also include a warning to fish that they will get ratholed a lot when they play there.

This would be true if it was a mere preference poll, but it isn't

If you put 5-Card Draw in that poll, nobody prefers that game but nobody would want it dropped either

Poll results don't just say "x like the games" and "y don't like them", they show a huge part of the community whether they play them or not who think it's irresponsible and wrong for those games to be offered at all (at least in the manner that they're being offered, barely labeled at all and placed right next to standard games)

It's not just "we don't like them", it's "we don't play them and they're detrimental to the poker community as a whole and should specifically not be offered"

Your concern for the fish is touching. Next time one sits at your table maybe you should warn them about the tracker, hud and other software you are using that gives you an extra advantage the casual player doesn't have.

Variance in polling is a little different from variance in poker

Most political polls you see on television have sample sizes of about 1000 to 1200 respondents

The tracker does not give an advantage against a fish as long as that fish is playing less than 4 tables. If anything the fish has an advantage since I multitable and have to rely on the HUD, but he has more time to take notes and analyze my play.

uh?? i don't think I could disagree more

AS A PROUD AMERICAN, I SUPPORT FREEDOM OF 1 CHOICE AND LIBERTY FOR RECREATIONAL PLAYERS TO CHOOSE THE TABLES MOST FUN FOR THEM

It took 125 posts in this thread for someone to finally say something smart.

Well done, zoo!

Hmmm...maybe the fact that it wasn't blindingly obvious to you what the result was going to be before you started the poll helps to explain why you started the 653rd thread about this subject. You might want to go back and read some of the other threads - hate for shortstackers and these tables is pretty widespread on 2+2.