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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,503 34.88%
No
5,608 55.84%
Undecided
932 9.28%

11-29-2010 , 10:27 PM
Dont laugh - this is serious. Iv'e seen proof.

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavian30
blah blah blah
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergistic Explosions
I subscribe to an online poker news alert letter. It's very expensive and very very exclusive. It's for just the highest of the high rollers in the industry. The writer of the newsletter was an industry insider and former owner of a major site which he sold. His contacts are solid and very trustworthy, and I trust what he says on face value, or I wouldn't be paying five figures a year for his information, which has never been wrong in over 30 months of alerts.

So what I tell the OP here is something he is just going to have to believe and take me for my word. I shouldn't be posting this information on a public board but I have lost my private message privileges because the mods all hate me and want me to leave here, most likely because what I say is always the truth and the truth is dirty and the truth hurts, especially it hurts the affiliates here who own the poker message board world. You know that is true.

So here is the truth OP, listen carefully. According to the most recent news alert, Somalian Pirates have infiltrated the major poker networks supercomputers and have been planting all-in beat-bombs. This is causing the strange anomalousness you have noticed in your research of past data. I know this sounds kooky and many here will immediately dismiss this as nonsense, but the source of this information is to be trusted. I can't divulge the full details on how they have infiltrated online poker, because there are many people working 24/7 trying to eradicate these Somalian Pirates from having access to their supercomputers. It's a tough battle and one that won't be easily won by the poker sites. There resources are spread thin right now trying to provide cash out options, which is a battle they have been losing badly at. Some insiders say the sites are all but dead because of the pirate issue and the cash out issue. Don't believe that though, my inside source tells me that there is a major infusion of cash coming into the industry from the North Koreans, who want a major piece of this action. They believe it's going to be their economic salvation and help lead them into the modern world as well as funding their extensive nuclear ambitions. So if my source is right, look for the next batch of checks from the poker sites to come from a prominent North Korean bank. Either North Korean World Bank, or First Third Bank of North Korea.

OP, I hope this helps you with your trust issues about the poker sites having an agenda against winning regs. That is so not true. It's the Somalian Pirates. Once the North Koreans get into the game they will clean out those pirates very quickly and the games will seem fair to you again. I promise.

I'm going to post this reply under a new screen name so I don't get in trouble from my inside source. Trust me though, I have over 2000 posts here and have been a member since 2004. I can't risk going public with this info under my real screen name though because of how explosive the info is and what it could mean to my future safety.

Take care everyone, and just wait for the North Koreans to clean things up.
Sigh. Did you really waste 15 minutes of your life writing this? Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and this isn't even good sarcasm.

To the guy who made the opening post - you said you were going to get flamed and you have not been disappointed.

The best thing to do is not take on the assorted shills and attention-seekers at this forum. (There are some genuine people here too, but they don't tend to look at threads like this.)

It is probably better to send an email to the poker sites you believe have been manipulating hands. Tell them you no longer trust them and will withdraw all your funds and tell your friends not to play there.

That is likely to have more of an effect in the long run than arguing with people here who have very little to offer other than facetious put-downs they copied from someone else.

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 10:42 PM
Why do I feel like this hand history database resides scribbled on Post-It notes and on the back of junk-mail envelopes?

OP, if you really end up going somewhere with this, use smaller equity bins next time.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatBandit
Sigh. Did you really waste 15 minutes of your life writing this? Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and this isn't even good sarcasm.

To the guy who made the opening post - you said you were going to get flamed and you have not been disappointed.

The best thing to do is not take on the assorted shills and attention-seekers at this forum. (There are some genuine people here too, but they don't tend to look at threads like this.)

It is probably better to send an email to the poker sites you believe have been manipulating hands. Tell them you no longer trust them and will withdraw all your funds and tell your friends not to play there.

That is likely to have more of an effect in the long run than arguing with people here who have very little to offer other than facetious put-downs they copied from someone else.

Or you can just get one of these bad boys...


The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 10:44 PM
OP - Feel free to post your hand histories that you have used for this research. Others here will be happy to confirm whether your methodology is at least correct.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 10:55 PM
Nowhere in your post did I see any mention of what you determined was one standard deviation, how many standard deviations you were from the norm, etc etc. Merge it up with the master thread about "online poker is rigged".
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergistic Explosions
I subscribe to an online poker news alert letter. It's very expensive and very very exclusive. It's for just the highest of the high rollers in the industry. The writer of the newsletter was an industry insider and former owner of a major site which he sold. His contacts are solid and very trustworthy, and I trust what he says on face value, or I wouldn't be paying five figures a year for his information, which has never been wrong in over 30 months of alerts.

So what I tell the OP here is something he is just going to have to believe and take me for my word. I shouldn't be posting this information on a public board but I have lost my private message privileges because the mods all hate me and want me to leave here, most likely because what I say is always the truth and the truth is dirty and the truth hurts, especially it hurts the affiliates here who own the poker message board world. You know that is true.

So here is the truth OP, listen carefully. According to the most recent news alert, Somalian Pirates have infiltrated the major poker networks supercomputers and have been planting all-in beat-bombs. This is causing the strange anomalousness you have noticed in your research of past data. I know this sounds kooky and many here will immediately dismiss this as nonsense, but the source of this information is to be trusted. I can't divulge the full details on how they have infiltrated online poker, because there are many people working 24/7 trying to eradicate these Somalian Pirates from having access to their supercomputers. It's a tough battle and one that won't be easily won by the poker sites. There resources are spread thin right now trying to provide cash out options, which is a battle they have been losing badly at. Some insiders say the sites are all but dead because of the pirate issue and the cash out issue. Don't believe that though, my inside source tells me that there is a major infusion of cash coming into the industry from the North Koreans, who want a major piece of this action. They believe it's going to be their economic salvation and help lead them into the modern world as well as funding their extensive nuclear ambitions. So if my source is right, look for the next batch of checks from the poker sites to come from a prominent North Korean bank. Either North Korean World Bank, or First Third Bank of North Korea.

OP, I hope this helps you with your trust issues about the poker sites having an agenda against winning regs. That is so not true. It's the Somalian Pirates. Once the North Koreans get into the game they will clean out those pirates very quickly and the games will seem fair to you again. I promise.

I'm going to post this reply under a new screen name so I don't get in trouble from my inside source. Trust me though, I have over 2000 posts here and have been a member since 2004. I can't risk going public with this info under my real screen name though because of how explosive the info is and what it could mean to my future safety.

Take care everyone, and just wait for the North Koreans to clean things up.
Please BAN. MORON OF THE YEAR 101.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 11:04 PM
lets correct this guys misconception

lets all put our things on here and we will add them all up at the end and we will advance the spread of truth, il go first!

here is all my all in preflop hands
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 11:29 PM
so much stupidity
I have played onl;ine since 2005 - over 400,000 hands
Only started keeping thses stats recently with new install of PokerTracker
1000 pre-flop All Ins represents about 40k hands by the way
still waiting for anybody with real facts not just hot air opinions
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 11:49 PM
Am I the only one who thinks these type of threads have to be bad for the game. I was alerted to this thread by my brother, who is a casual player, and constant micro-low stakes losing player. He is not familiar with 2p2 and just happen to run into this off a google search. He (being casual player) does not understand that 1000 hands in not a OMG HUGE sample. He now doesn't feel comfortable playing... I wonder how much money these type of senseless post cost the poker ecosystem.

OP, to answer you fairly. 1000 might seem big, but its really not. Over that type of sampling all sorts of weird stats can happen. Unfortunately for you, the stats were not in your favor.

My advise would be to keep us updated. Do odds for 10x or even 100x the amount you have right now, then report back with your findings.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob
These are some awesome facts you have chosen to share with us. I thank you. Can you please provide some of the methodology you used to determine these facts? Exactly how is it that your sample size is beyond the realm of the statistically improbable?

I mean, without providing any mathematical analysis of how improbable this is it kind of looks like you are just throwing the phrase "statistically improbable" out there without knowing at all how likely or unlikely such a run might be. But since you never post opinions and always post facts I know that must be incorrect.
I particularly enjoyed this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavian30
Of the hands (613) I had 50% or better I should have won 65% - I have actually only won 51% - 21% down on what any sane person could reasonably expect.
So any sane person could reasonably expect nothing less than 65%? Really??

OP, if you want to be taken seriously, you should think about dialing down the hyperbole several notches. And you've been asked some very reasonable questions WRT your claims of the improbability of your stats - how about backing up your conclusions with some kind of hint as to how you arrived at them rather than calling everyone's posts stupidity and asking them for facts. Provide some facts yourself; you're the one making all the claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavian30
1000 pre-flop All Ins represents about 40k hands by the way
How is this relevant?

Let's say I believe that I have a die that comes up with the number 6 far too often, but only on Mondays from 7-8 PM. I have a sample of 1,000 die rolls in a given week, but only 10 of them happened in that time frame, and 6 came up twice, 17% more than expected. Is your sample size 1,000, or 10? Is 1,000 even relevant?

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 11-29-2010 at 11:54 PM. Reason: It isn't.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-29-2010 , 11:51 PM
I agree with OP, and I am not leveling you.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 12:06 AM
I recall you used to always post that FT was rigged - after all these years, I'd expect you to have lots of evidence.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 12:18 AM
yes Bobo - but I only started with 5 categories and they took a while to build up -
all you doubters out there - I don't really care if you don't believe me - it is your money that they are taking unfairly.
I will be back when I have 10k stats
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 12:18 AM
Completely agree with you op. I'm 12k below this month at 200nl over 200K hands. Sick riggage.



......Oh wait, just checked and I'm actually still above EV for the year. So scratch that, you are a muppet.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 12:20 AM
i dont know why anyone cares about the sample size in the OP considering that its just made up anyway.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavian30
yes Bobo - but I only started with 5 categories and they took a while to build up -
all you doubters out there - I don't really care if you don't believe me - it is your money that they are taking unfairly.
I will be back when I have 10k stats
If you're answering my last post, that was directed at BigBiceps.

If your stats are for real, I'd encourage you to continue, but do so with an open mind. You seem to have your mind already made up, while not demonstrating any understanding of the relevance of your numbers. I'm not saying you have no such understanding, just that you're not demonstrating it if you do.

Ease up on the hyperbole, and keep gathering your numbers.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 12:26 AM
So lets see ... you are claiming to be 212 buyins below ev in preflop allins. Just putting this into terms people more easily understand.

A binomial distribution of 1000 60/40s places the odds of running 200BI below ev at:

1.0148 E-10, or 0.0000000010148%, or nearly 1 in 10 Billion

if I did the math correctly, but I'm not sure how accurate of an estimation that is.

Somehow, I think people are going to want you to post more information?

http://stattrek.com/Tables/Binomial.aspx

Last edited by ph2133868789; 11-30-2010 at 12:48 AM. Reason: I'll stop editing now, I promise.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 12:33 AM
His posting account being 5 years old is a bit surprising, but otherwise he is just a standard mundane riggie.

He believes everything he is saying, however he has no idea what he is actually talking about, and he will never make his data available for proper analysis.

If he had real data and a real idea of what he is talking about then he would post his data in the probability forum for review. He will never do that.

Maybe in another year or two he will pop in and post of his progress again without showing any real data.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 01:01 AM
Odds for comparison purposes:
+/- 25 or more Wins, roughly 1 in 20
+/- 50 or more Wins, roughly 1 in 1400
+/- 75 or more Wins, greater than 1 in 1M

One more:

+/- 200 BI over 10,000 trials: 1 in 50

Last edited by ph2133868789; 11-30-2010 at 01:12 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 02:18 AM
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakemeplz
That books sucks.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavian30
so much stupidity
I have played onl;ine since 2005 - over 400,000 handsOnly started keeping thses stats recently with new install of PokerTracker
1000 pre-flop All Ins represents about 40k hands by the way
still waiting for anybody with real facts not just hot air opinions
sick volume
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-30-2010 , 03:42 AM
I actually also wondered about this.
The pokersites do have an incentive to do this. So it do deserve and investigation from winning players.
And in genereal all you see is posts about players running below the EV line. Aswell as myself...
It goes like 6 players posting on forum that run below EV on everyone that run above (just my personal experience).

Do unlucky players have a bigger tendency to post about it or are the winning players on average visiting this forum more and therefor also posting more since winning = unlucky according to this theory.

GL with the numbers.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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