That's ok, if the OP wanted it closed in NVG, but why in god's name isn't THIS thread stickied? Not that it's going to fall off the first page but still....

Those people who feel strongly about having it stickied should lobby a moderator by PM. I'm just content that it's getting enough views (after two months of not...)

I am not suggesting that ANY cover up is taking place as a cover up implies that someone has inside detail knowledge of the crime and is now actively sweeping it under the carpet.

I am suggesting that if players continue to be robbed (which is most likely going to happen again later in April) or players not notifed to check their Jan thru March bank accounts for theft - then these poker media sites are playing a role in their silence and lack of reporting of this MAJOR story.

If FTP is not going to notify their customers , then poker media sites have a responsbility to do just that. By sitting back and doing nothing, they (poker media sites _ 2+2 included) are now becoming part of the reason why the poker community has and will continue to be robbed blindly here.

This is a major news story - someone please tell me where I am wrong. I appreciate 2+2 alowing this thread in the Internet section. But the UB scandal has all sorts of stickys in the highly popular NVG section. I would think that part of the poker community bank accounts being robbed blindly as we speak, is of great importance to get the word out to all.

Whichever user requested the NVG thread closed is barmy.
Presumably since a user requested that thread closed there is nothing to stop someone opening a new thread in NVG with just a very brief summary of what's going on and a link to this thread?

****.

Between my girlfriend and I, we just deposited $640.

Of course, our problem at this point is that they haven't taken the money OUT of either of our accounts yet, and we deposited days ago.

KINDA WISH I'D SEEN THIS THREAD BEFORE DEPOSITING.

Edit: wait a minute...
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...advice-954451/

So, let me get this straight: Full Tilt is stealing money from some people and refusing to take money from others?

Well, at this point, my girlfriend and I have the drop on them, and obviously we're going to need to close these bank accounts ASAP to protect them from PMI, so...

Freeroll on my tittays?

Actually the first account I was going to close anyway, since Chase is now charging a $10 monthly fee for checking accounts, and I don't need that account anymore. This deposit was gonna be the last thing I did with this account before closing it, and I'm still willing to do that, but I'm NOT going to pay $10 a month indefinitely to keep the account open until FT gets its **** together.

You've got two weeks, fellas.

FT's in the wrong on the payment processing delays but that doesn't give you any right to steal... If you are serious about the freerolling FT then it's more scumminess ipoker doesn't need and so...

Well, I'm kidding about the freeroll. It is not my aim to steal or scam. I have every intention of giving them their money.

However, this situation is a real problem. I am not going to pay $10 a month indefinitely to keep that checking account open until they finally take the money out. That would be THEM costing ME money by not providing the service they promised (a timely withdrawal, which I would consider to be 3 to 4 days max).

And If I DO close one or both of these checking accounts before the withdrawals are made, they're still free to deduct the money from our player accounts.

This isn't the, "I'm going to use faux moral outrage to get out of my obligations" thread.

The payment processing landscape is troubled right now. Processors get shut down all the time.

One processor seems to be screwing people, a large percentage of them appear to be FTP customers. FTP may or may not be doing what they're supposed to be doing to protect its customers against this fraud.

Independent of that, sometimes it takes FTP a while to withdraw your money.

The issue at hand is that PMI reports have been recorded in forums since late Jan, and its early Apr and ftp still implies they have nothing to do with it much less if they are doing anything to protect us from fraud.

In my case I have closed my checking acct (money has been disputed and refunded by bank as I didnt call PMI) and I have moved on, just following on this as it is relevant to my interest.

Also, it is sad the customer support we get when in this situation, just copy paste replies if you ask me that's even worse than calling an automated 1-800-number that to get to speak to a human you have to go through like 10 levels

Ok I just found this information out just now, i am hysterical. I need to get my money back and do not know how I can do this. I was charged MANY overdraft fees bc of this. I am on a fixed income and am now at risk of being evicted and can not pay my rent due to this mistake and all of the over draft fees. What am I to do?

Call PMI.
Keep calling until they answer.
They will pretend that they "already" are processing a refund for you.
They will reverse the charges.
Then, if you're worried, close your bank account and get a new one.

Hi guys,

I have just sent this email to FTP:

I am using a foriegn email address that is not in relation to my poker account due to the nature of the email. A PMI associated with your cashier processing system has been doing several illegal transactions through an account I have used for FTP in 2010. These 3 transactions are the exact amount as my first deposit on FTP. After a search through the twoplustwo forums I have found that over 30 players accounts have been effected due to this illegal activity.



Full Tilt Poker has replied with a standard response taking zero responsiblity for this. After reviewing your terms and conditions, it has come to my attention that you hold a policy to never share private banking information with a foriegn entity and thus, creating a safe and secure place to play with real money. This is a breach of your own T&C's and FTP should be held 100% responsible. The PMI is targeting victims in the US only due to the gray area of legal tender in relation to online gaming, thus decreasing the chances of any legal action being taken. Now, I have an internationally based company that has a law firm on my payroll to handle foriegn matters that are out my league. They have recieved all the information and emails regarding these activity and have built a portfolio against the PMI and FTP.



From what I have been told by my laywers, It is the responsiblity of both the PMI and FTP in this matter, each having a seperate role in the activities taking place. FTP is not currently commiting fraud, though is in relation to a breach of the terms and conditions resulting in the matter at hand and should be handled by the mother company = full Tilt Poker. FTP holds a high level of resources and finances to solve such a problem before it esculates to a serious level. I personally have lost funds due to illegal activity by other poker sites, all of which had legal action taken against them and are now non existent.



I will be following responses to the players affected and the action taken by other websites, players etc to see what the outcome is and try to avoid creating an expensive and problematic legal battle.



Regards,

A ripped off FTP player.

I do not play high stakes and the money I use is low in comparsion to others, though I do run a success business that has expanding internationally. due to this I have had to get a law firm to work with me on a lot of legal matters. they have several specialist departments including fraud. From the information I got from the lawyers, they pretty state that FTP is responible to a certain extent (breaking the T&C of FTP). Even though they are not responsible in refunding the money, they do have a multi billion dollar company at stake. the lawyers stated its at thier best interest to resolve this before any legal action or bad rep is created (abit late there).

I also have the lawyers send a formal email to FTP which for legal purposes cant be exposed here just incase this does go legal. Though I suggest everyone view this thread in the coming weeks as if I can purse this further I may need some victim statements at hand.

Keep in mind though, They are targeting US players and are responding to those that a pushing the PMI in question. Example as to why this is, is pretty clear. they withdraw $1,000,000.00 from banks acccounts nation wide (example) and get pressured by a number of account holders that equal to $250,000.00 (example) then they have successfully gained $750,000.00 because 75,000 people cant be bothered tracking a $10 transaction. its all just a basic example but could even be on a larger scale.

We'll see what thier response is.. this is unacceptable by any company and for any nature. Personally, as a business owner myself, FTP deserves to lose a large percentage of thier player base = a lose a millions in revenue = a lesson learn't the hard way! but I doubt this will happen. At present they have upto 10k players on UB!! People just dont care

Full Tilt should not be accepting deposits right now, period.

FYI all-

I was the one who sent a PM to Mike Haven about the dual threads. The logic being, if there were two separate threads, some crucial information might be posted in one thread but not the other, and posters like Steve D, Palimax and myself were forced to post the exact same thing in both threads.

NVG does have more traffic, but this was the most viewed thread, with the most responses, by far. Also, it fits better here than NVG.

That being said, I am very curious why this isn't being stickied, but I 'm willing to wait. I assume 2+2 is waiting for the official FTP statement on this matter. For all we know, they are about to lower the boom on PMI.

Once we see what the FTP stance is, and what they are willing to do, a course of action will become much clearer.

I certainly don't buy the first BS line that FTP never did business with PMI. The question that I, and many others DEMAND to be answered is: Why did FTP sever ties with PMI in the first place?

Also, call the bank and dispute the charges-let them know they were unauthorized. When you reach PMI and they money is refunded, the bank should eliminate the overdraft fees.

Good luck.

the fact that no poker media outlet is doing ANYTHING about this, and the fact that these scams ARE STILL HAPPENING proves how deep the corruption in online poker really runs. LOL at the thread getting shut down in NVG. At least try to cover it up 2p2, you might as well be part of the problem.

You can't trust anything you read online and you can't trust any of the poker sites themselves. Think about it... how can you trust a company that commits thousands of US felonies per day? Every time you deposit money, that is a felony committed by whoever processed your transaction. This happens thousands of times per day.

There's a reason why no one plays online and the games are dry, filled with bots, colluders, and cheaters. No honest person trusts these sites and they shouldn't. Look at all the scandals that have happened over the last 5 years. Its unbelievable... and the poker media giants ARE THE PROBLEM bc u cover and cover and cover it up until its so OBVIOUS, that any same person can't cover it any more.

lol PMImaments

On Thursday I emailed FTP linking this thread to ask if my banking information had been compromised. I've not even been give the respect of a "**** off", just ignored. Even by FTP's well deserved ****ty CS reputation, this is outrageous.

Mike, Boba, why hasn't this been stickied?

... Then, call the FBI and tell them what happened.

Keep it on the front page for those who haven't heard.

I'll try to include this in my long overdue summary update, but...

"PMI" it seems, isn't a company at all. It's just a descriptor that the company puts on their chargers. We've had a few people post possible actual company names and ID#'s, but I'm not sure we're 100% certain on those.

As such, Full Tilt Poker can't say, "We didn't authorize PMI." ...because PMI isn't a company name, just a descriptor on the ACH.

PMI is obviously used as a descriptor by these crooks hoping people will overlook it thinking it stands for Private Mortgage Insurance which is a term in common use in the banking/lending industry in regards to home mortgages. Just another method for perpetuating the scam.

I find you very interesting. Do you have a blog or something I can follow you at? What do you think of the sites RNG's?

Wow. I hope FT doesn't turn into the next UB