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!!! Gay conservative Milo Yiannopoulos named LGBTQ Nation's 2016 Person of the Year !!! Gay conservative Milo Yiannopoulos named LGBTQ Nation's 2016 Person of the Year

03-17-2017 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ball
This again, huh?

The gender wage gap exists. From Wiki:



We also have empirical evidence of gender discrimination:

http://gap.hks.harvard.edu/orchestra...male-musicians

So it seems reasonable to assume that some if not all of the 5-6% wage gap is due to gender discrimination.

And this doesn't even cover how women have been discouraged from pursuing high paying careers.
I won't deny that SOME of that 5-6% COULD be due to implicit bias. (Some of that 5-6% must be that men ask for raises and negotiate their salary much more often)

What can the government do to tease out the remaining ~2-3% that might be due to implicit bias and fix it? If you have a solution, how could anyone possibly object?

When people say the wage gap is a 'myth' they are referring to the 77% number that gets tossed around for political reasons (or based on ignorance). The 23% gap is clearly not best explained by discrimination and yet most people think it is.
03-17-2017 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadcap
I won't deny that SOME of that 5-6% COULD be due to implicit bias. (Some of that 5-6% must be that men ask for raises and negotiate their salary much more often)

What can the government do to tease out the remaining ~2-3% that might be due to implicit bias and fix it? If you have a solution, how could anyone possibly object?

When people say the wage gap is a 'myth' they are referring to the 77% number that gets tossed around for political reasons (or based on ignorance). The 23% gap is clearly not best explained by discrimination and yet most people think it is.
Well actually it depends on how you measure it, there are many different metrics and ways of looking at it. But overall, yes, the 77% figure is about right on average, give or take a couple of percentage points.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...to-men-on-pay/
Quote:


The gender wage gap has narrowed significantly over the past 50 years. In 1964, according to data from the Census Bureau, the typical woman working full time made about 59 cents on the dollar earned by a man; by 2004, that had risen to 77 cents. (These calculations don’t take into account differences in experience, industry or other factors.) More recently, however, progress for women has nearly stalled out: In 2014, the latest data available, women earned 79 cents for every dollar earned by men, a 2-pennies-an-hour improvement over a decade.2

Other measures of women’s progress in the workforce — their rate of employment, the likelihood that they will work in a historically male-dominated field, the rate at which they run big companies — show a similar pattern of what researchers Martha J. Bailey and Thomas A. DiPrete, in a new essay, call “five decades of remarkable but slowing change” for American women.

Bailey and DiPrete’s essay serves as the introduction to a remarkable new collection of papers from the Russell Sage Foundation that examines the progress that women have — and haven’t — made over the past half-century. It isn’t a simple story. The U.S. has already made major, albeit incomplete, progress on many of the most obvious causes of gender inequality — explicit discrimination on pay,3 overt barriers to employment, taboos against working while raising children. What is left is a tangle of cultural norms, implicit biases, individual preferences and other, subtler forms of discrimination that are much harder to change or even to measure.

Take the long-hours anecdote I described above. The rapid rise in pay for people working long hours has played a major role in the persistence of the overall gender wage gap, particularly for parents; new research in the Russell Sage Foundation volume estimates that the wage gap between mothers and fathers would be 15 percent smaller if the extra-hours increase hadn’t occurred. But that premium itself isn’t the result of discrimination, explicit or implicit; women who work long hours have seen even faster gains than men (although they still earn less on average).

Rather, the trend contributes to the wage gap because men are so much more likely than women to work those long hours. That, in turn, is the result of a confluence of factors that are deeply embedded in the American economy and society: Women, on average, spend much more time than men on housework, while men — especially a certain category of highly educated, elite men — are expected to work as much as possible. And of course, most importantly, mothers are still far more likely than fathers to be the primary caregiver for their children. Government policies could make a difference — affordable child care, for example, could make it easier for women who want to work long hours to do so — but they can only go so far.

03-17-2017 , 02:10 PM
I'm not suggesting the 77% figure is wrong. I am saying that it is wrong to attribute it all to discrimination.

To use government force to bring the 77% up to 100% is to try to protect women from themselves and the choices that they make. The government should only be responsible for ensuring that if a woman wants to work 40 hours a week as an engineer that she will be paid the same as an equally qualified male engineer working 40 hours a week.

Where this isn't happening, the government should step in. If there is no discrimination, there isn't a problem to solve as far as the government is concerned.

On a personal level, if you want to encourage the women around you to ask for raises more often and go into STEM subjects, feel free to do so.
03-17-2017 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadcap
I'm not suggesting the 77% figure is wrong. I am saying that it is wrong to attribute it all to discrimination.

To use government force to bring the 77% up to 100% is to try to protect women from themselves and the choices that they make. The government should only be responsible for ensuring that if a woman wants to work 40 hours a week as an engineer that she will be paid the same as an equally qualified male engineer working 40 hours a week.

Where this isn't happening, the government should step in. If there is no discrimination, there isn't a problem to solve.
Ah well I basically agree with you here. I would go one step further and say we need to have universal college education so all the women who want to become engineers can do so, but yeah pretty much this is correct.

Edit: I would also say that better paid family leave policies and other things that the govt can do can help as well.
03-17-2017 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadcap
I won't deny that SOME of that 5-6% COULD be due to implicit bias. (Some of that 5-6% must be that men ask for raises and negotiate their salary much more often)

What can the government do to tease out the remaining ~2-3% that might be due to implicit bias and fix it? If you have a solution, how could anyone possibly object?

When people say the wage gap is a 'myth' they are referring to the 77% number that gets tossed around for political reasons (or based on ignorance). The 23% gap is clearly not best explained by discrimination and yet most people think it is.
Yes, but the 5-6% number doesn't consider how discrimination in some fields helps to influence women's choice of career. Obviously harassment is still an issue--as seen with the recent happenings at Uber.

I don't know how much the government can do, but fully enforcing anti-discrimination laws is a good start.
03-17-2017 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ball
Yes, but the 5-6% number doesn't consider how discrimination in some fields helps to influence women's choice of career. Obviously harassment is still an issue--as seen with the recent happenings at Uber.

I don't know how much the government can do, but fully enforcing anti-discrimination laws is a good start.
Unfortunately, every time they get a chance, Republicans not only refuse to enforce anti-discrimination laws, they don't even want those laws to exist.

Senate Republicans reject equal pay bill
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.f10a034903d3
03-17-2017 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Ah well I basically agree with you here. I would go one step further and say we need to have universal college education so all the women who want to become engineers can do so, but yeah pretty much this is correct.

Edit: I would also say that better paid family leave policies and other things that the govt can do can help as well.
Women earn degrees at higher rates than men. That can't be the issue.

I'm all for the government providing opportunities for anyone to be able to go to college but for different reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ball
Yes, but the 5-6% number doesn't consider how discrimination in some fields helps to influence women's choice of career. Obviously harassment is still an issue--as seen with the recent happenings at Uber.

I don't know how much the government can do, but fully enforcing anti-discrimination laws is a good start.
Sure, anti discrimination laws should be enforced.

Is there evidence of widespread discrimination forcing women to not choose certain high paying careers? Obviously it happens sometimes but it doesn't seem to me to be a likely driver of a lot of the difference.
03-17-2017 , 04:02 PM


Citation provided.
03-17-2017 , 05:44 PM
03-17-2017 , 05:53 PM
Is it possible for this debate on gender wage gap to be moved to a new thread and we can close and retire this thread that started out with Milo?
03-17-2017 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Don't post anything from the YouTubbeeeezzzzeeee please. The video is complete idiocy, anyway.
03-17-2017 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Don't post anything from the YouTubbeeeezzzzeeee please. The video is complete idiocy, anyway.
03-17-2017 , 06:10 PM
It is humorous that a female had to make a video to try to emulate the cuteness of the original video. It seems feminists love playing off other people's successes.

The reason the video was stupid is because the interview was indeed a work/professional setting. You don't bring children to work and if they do somehow barge in to your home office it should be addressed accordingly. The feminist video is implying she handled it more correctly.

She's wrong.

My wife worked from home this entire week while I was travelling and the snow caused issues in our area. She wasn't playing, she was working. When I came home today she made me take our daughter out of the house and away from her while she was on conference calls. She's a professional and she needs to actually work professionally. Her having a screaming child or child playing in the background isn't professional at all.
03-17-2017 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
It is humorous that a female had to make a video to try to emulate the cuteness of the original video. It seems feminists love playing off other people's successes.

The reason the video was stupid is because the interview was indeed a work/professional setting. You don't bring children to work and if they do somehow barge in to your home office it should be addressed accordingly. The feminist video is implying she handled it more correctly.

She's wrong.

My wife worked from home this entire week while I was travelling and the snow caused issues in our area. She wasn't playing, she was working. When I came home today she made me take our daughter out of the house and away from her while she was on conference calls. She's a professional and she needs to actually work professionally. Her having a screaming child or child playing in the background isn't professional at all.
03-17-2017 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Judging by your responses with childish or teenage women holding their middle fingers up seems you are just another person who cant accept how things really work in the world. I'm right. You're wrong. It's hard to admit it but you should try to look at things in the correct manner.

If a person reacted in the way portrayed in your video on a teleconference (much less a live TV interview) in a professional environment they should be fired immediately. I'm sure in most cases they would.
03-17-2017 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Judging by your responses with childish or teenage women holding their middle fingers up seems you are just another person who cant accept how things really work in the world. I'm right. You're wrong. It's hard to admit it but you should try to look at things in the correct manner.

If a person reacted in the way on a teleconference in a professional environment they should be fired immediately. I'm sure in most cases they would.
03-17-2017 , 06:32 PM
Lol. Einbert showing himself for what he really is.

An immature crybaby.
03-17-2017 , 06:33 PM
His YouTube link was particularly funny after disregarding YouTube so many times. Which, in and of itself is comical.
03-17-2017 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
His YouTube link was particularly funny after disregarding YouTube so many times. Which, in and of itself is comical.
03-17-2017 , 06:39 PM
einbert.

Go back to crying about losing the election. That's more your style.
03-17-2017 , 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
I didn't see this gem. Women are discouraged from pursuing high paying careers? Lol, don't more women attend college than men now? Doesn't college education lead towards higher paying jobs, in general?

Lol @ this.
03-17-2017 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
I didn't see this gem. Women are discouraged from pursuing high paying careers? Lol, don't more women attend college than men now? Doesn't college education lead towards higher paying jobs, in general?

Lol @ this.
Actually, there are a dearth of women in the high paying majors on campus.
03-17-2017 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive
it's glorious
Every time you see a wilectode, you have to try to remind yourself that the people that are constantly around him are people that choose to be constantly around him and in no way make up the standard sample of the actual population. Of course he thinks that everyone thinks like him.
03-17-2017 , 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Crispen
Every time you see a wilectode, you have to try to remind yourself that the people that are constantly around him are people that choose to be constantly around him and in no way make up the standard sample of the actual population. Of course he thinks that everyone thinks like him.
I don't think that at all, and I don't know what would make you believe that.

And yes, people constantly choose to or actively seek out my company.
03-17-2017 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil318466
Einbert, while I don't have any issue with people doing something funny (or what they think is funny), there really is no need for you to spam the forum. The Twitter's are bad enough.

      
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